Vegetarianism
" So you are doing it for the animals, well said too. Just dive right in or go slow, your call. There are different approaches for different people. Just dont eat McD fries for example, yea, animal fat pre-frying, so nope, not vegetarian. Stuff like that makes me very careful when i eat out. Funny thing is, humans waste so much energy on breeding and raising and feeding something just to kill it, in the meantime they could have lived of off what they feed their food source. Why feed the cow with something you could be eating yourself? Puts 1 more mouth to fill in the way and its way more work. Good luck with becoming a vegetarian. :) |
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" Kind of, but I'm mostly doing it for the ethical consistency. Why is it wrong to punch a person in the face? Do those same reasons apply to anything that can consciously experience pain and suffering? It's wrong to punch a person in the face even if I don't care about that person, so by extension the same should be said for animals. Also with regards to the arguments about whether or not humans are "naturally" herbivores, I don't care. I fully understand that our ancestors weren't in a position to be picky. It's just that we are. We know how to grow crops all year round, we know how to make a tofu burger with more protein in it than a meat burger. Our species isn't "naturally" just one thing, it evolved over time and it can keep evolving, especially with technology to help it along. I think it probably was ethically justifiable for our ancestors to eat meat, I just don't think I can justify doing it in the world we now live in. |
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" I feel the same way. But you should precisely define what is included in your ethics. Are ants and insects off limits? Bacteria and single celled organisms? Mice and rats? Why? From my limited knowledge of you, i think you place much to great an emphasis on 'consciousness'. Simply being aware of your place in your environment is not some great and holy property, imo. I have created bots which far exceed such requirements. ys In my view there must be a capacity to think beyond ones self. A higher level sentience. And then there is the issue of trust; the subject in question must reliably behave in a consistent way which doesnt negatively impact other sentient beings. If you feel consciousness is all that is needed, dont let me detract from your beliefs. I have not always believed in what i do now. I wish someone would have asked me such questions(which im asking you) when i was younger. For years i searched for deep truths. A thousand revelations. At the very edge...the ability to think itself dissolves away.Thinking in human language is the problem. Any separation from 'the whole truth' is incomplete.My incomplete concepts may add to your 'whole truth', accept it or think about it
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" As I said on my second post on the first page of this thread, my reason for wanting to not eat any meat at all (fish included) is precisely so that I don't have to get into those questions. There are a few reasons for that. One is a practical issue; when I'm looking at a menu I don't want to have to spend time considering how much conscious suffering each individual animal went through to make the dish, it's much easier to just blanket all animals and not eat any of them. Another reason is that I think there would be a huge amount of speculation involved. I don't think a rat suffers the same sense of loss when one of it's buddies dies as a dog would, but I can't prove it, I'm not a neuroscientist, from what I've read the people who are neuroscientists are divided on the subject, and again, I end up at the conclusion it's better to simply not eat any animals if I don't need to. " I'm not aware of any bots (or even any form of technology) that has anything that could be considered consciousness, and being aware of one's surroundings is merely something that can enhance consciousness, I don't think it's a prerequisite for it. For example, someone who is blind and deaf would be utterly unaware of their surroundings, yet just as conscious and capable of experiencing meaningful suffering as you or I. Again, there is probably a point at which that stops being an issue with certain animals, but to distinguish each one on a case by case basis is impractical and would be fueled by ignorance and speculation on my part. " Lets say you're right. That still rules out eating pigs, cows and chickens. All are capable of building demonstrable trust in each other (and generally in humans), all are known for trying their best to take care of their offspring either alone or with help from their herd (pigs occasionally kill their babies but it's usually by accident). It leaves you in the exact same position as I am, you'd have to go through every animal to see which ones meet which of your criteria and to what extent, or, you could simplify it by just not eating any of them. " The ability to experience conscious suffering is what I'm concerned about. Conciousness itself isn't all that well defined so it wouldn't be a great starting point. And uh, I'm not all that young, it's not like this is the first time I've considered the subject, I'm just in the process of making a conscious effort to be more consistent in how I live my life and view the world. Never too late to start that :p |
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I'm 43 yrs old and have never truly felt hungry. Sure I've said I'm hungry many times but that's just relative to my comfortable living conditions.
I mean really hungry, if you don't eat then your body will start shutting down type hungry. So hungry that you'd eat something that could potentially make you sick. There's some places on the planet where fresh food isn't always readily available. The rate that people are consuming food stocks is unsustainable. Over fishing will break the food chain and then scenarios like Solent Green and Mad Max could very well be a realistic future. It won't be the zombie apocalypse that finishes us, it will be tribe on tribe fighting for enough food to survive. I'd gladly become a vegetarian if it was all that was available, in fact I'd be a vegetarian if I had to kill my own food. "Withdrawing in disgust is not the same as apathy"
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" I live in Cambodia. Seeing my own food being killed at my girlfriend's parents house (by her mother who survived the Khmer Rouge and is just grateful to have a chicken to kill for food) has been part of what pushed me. I'm not in that situation. I'm grateful that unlike her, I have no real need to kill a chicken for food. I can just go buy some tofu or something. |
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" Thats the thing, you see it in the super market or on a dinner plate and its nothing but food, if you had to feed it and then kill it, things would be very different. Lets hope all humans will see one day their food comes from a person with a heartbeat and emotions and a life. Its not like humans hunt down and kill with their own bare hands anyways so one cant even compare human eating behavior to that of any carnivore or omnivore. Anyways, this thread is taking some odd direction now, im out. |
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" Welcome to stick around to tell me what kind of tofu is good and stuff. I'm still finding the whole practical side of it hard. Almost every meal I've ever eaten has had meat in it :s |
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Each to his own. I understand not eating meat for health issues. I do not understand the ethical part. In this world, almost everything we use, is being crafted in Asia by kids and adults who work 15 hours per day for a few cents, on the worst possible conditions. If was not spoiled, i would boycott these products, but i can't, i am too used on my confortable life. There are so many people that are being treated worse than animals, in order for us to enoy the luxuries of western civilization, and multinational corporations to get richer and richer. I do not give a crap about killing pigs and cows that were specifically bred to be eaten.
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/417287 - Poutsos Flicker Nuke Shadow
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An easy meal or snack you can make is with soft tofu (if your not familiar with tofu it usually comes in firm medium and soft)
Put some soft tofu in a container and add some frozen berries, strawberries blackberries, cherries ect... I take that to work with me and later in the day when the berries have thawed and the juice mixes with the tofu. I mash up the tofu and stir it until it looks kind of like yogurt it's delicious. Got a favorite fruit? You can eat a ton of it as a meal....I'm talking 8 mangos or 15 oranges. After a long workout I blend 6 frozen bananas mixed with fresh orange juice. Also one thing that took me a while to figure out is that people don't need that much protien. If you ate nothing but fruit every day you'd get enough protien from the fruit assuming your not a body builder or some other type of athlete that needs huge muscle bro! To build large muscles you need a higher protien intake but to live a healthy life without lifting (like say your a runner or cyclist) fruits and veggies provide enough protien. IGN:Dethklok
lllllDanziGGlllll - 100 Ranger ~ HOGM Mirror Service: View-thread/2479762 Old:870532 |
