Still no balance a year later - with facts

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

[Removed by Support]

If a class is selected 13% out of a 15k group, and in the top 100 there are 10 of that class (out of 7 possible classes, 5 of which are dead), that class is underperforming in that bracket.

Additionally, when a class has well over a 50% mortality rate in the top brackets relative to a normal mortality rate of say, 20-30%, it is facing an increased risk of death at higher levels.

[Removed by Support]

Now as far as marauders and duelists, I've made enough attempts to demonstrate that duelists are underperforming and the [Removed by Support]. Interesting. As I've said several times the only reason I went with shadow is because I have old posts from March and April demonstrating the underperformance was the same then as it is now, despite any "buffs" the class may have received.

There are still no opinions here other than the [Removed by Support] arguing with me about what is and is not a fact and continually and intentionally misrepresenting my text.

Shadow is fine, [Removed by Support].

"

Xavderion wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

[Removed by Support]

If a class is selected 13% out of a 15k group, and in the top 100 there are 10 of that class (out of 7 possible classes, 5 of which are dead), that class is underperforming in that bracket.

Additionally, when a class has well over a 50% mortality rate in the top brackets relative to a normal mortality rate of say, 20-30%, it is facing an increased risk of death at higher levels.

[Removed by Support]

Now as far as marauders and duelists, I've made enough attempts to demonstrate that duelists are underperforming and the [Removed by Support]. Interesting. As I've said several times the only reason I went with shadow is because I have old posts from March and April demonstrating the underperformance was the same then as it is now, despite any "buffs" the class may have received.

There are still no opinions here other than the [Removed by Support] arguing with me about what is and is not a fact and continually and intentionally misrepresenting my text.

Shadow is fine, [Removed by Support].

[Removed by Support]

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

You literally just said what I've been saying from the beginning, I'm not even sure how you are pretending to argue with me in this post. +1 for a well done analysis, and I'm not sure what you're arguing with me on.

I'm arguing with you on:

1) A small sample from the top of the ladder alone doesn't tell anything about the class' performance. Your fact about top-40 and Shadows tells pretty much nothing.

2) Shadow doesn't have a significant performance drop from top-15k to top-100 so it's not under performing.

3) Using a single challenge league statistics WITHOUT considering how the rules of that league and the changes made in the patch at the launch of the league affect gameplay is misinterpreting the facts.

4) Nothing you've posted is implying that there are severe issues with the Shadow.

"

kuukkeli wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

You literally just said what I've been saying from the beginning, I'm not even sure how you are pretending to argue with me in this post. +1 for a well done analysis, and I'm not sure what you're arguing with me on.

I'm arguing with you on:

1) A small sample from the top of the ladder alone doesn't tell anything about the class' performance. Your fact about top-40 and Shadows tells pretty much nothing.

2) Shadow doesn't have a significant performance drop from top-15k to top-100 so it's not under performing.

3) Using a single challenge league statistics WITHOUT considering how the rules of that league and the changes made in the patch at the launch of the league affect gameplay is misinterpreting the facts.

4) Nothing you've posted is implying that there are severe issues with the Shadow.

I included a top 100 in the OP as well as a top 40, same as yours. Ironic. Go down to any bracket you'd like.

Shadows are dropping nearly 3%, almost identical to duelist but duelist is slightly worse. Only class that significantly underperforms relative to shadow by a good margin is marauder.

Using a single challenge league statistics is indicative of performance in that league. Feel free to show me the same analysis in regular HC and make your case.

I never said there were "severe" issues with shadow. I said they were underperforming in top brackets (40, 100, almost certainly more) which is again a fact not an opinion.

Lastly, you are completely ignoring the mortality rates which is significant. You are including 10 shadows out of 100, and 50% of those characters are dead. That is likely the highest mortality rate of all the classes, if I have some time tonight I may just go ahead and confirm it.

Bottom line though, the point of the OP was to illustrate a lack of balance in the game. With marauders underperforming by 5% and witches overperforming by over 10%, you passed the threshold that most reasonable people would allow as a reasonably balanced scenario. Marauders are behind witches roughly 15%, shadows are behind roughly 12%.

The percentage that is allowable IS DEBATABLE (an opinion). I would argue 15% is way too high. Maybe you think it's acceptable. Feel free to debate.

"

[Removed by Support]

The other 2, maybe more people who have made reasonable comments on this thread are welcome to debate any time they want. I have not said and will never say anything negative to or about those individuals.

The remaining people on this thread basically came in here, called facts opinions and got really loud despite being completely 100% and undeniably, provably wrong. Long after being shown, repeatedly, that this is how it is. [Removed by Support]

On the other hand if you run in here telling someone they are way wrong about literally numbers taken right off the ladders, a reasonable person will expect to be treated with some amount of contempt. [Removed by Support]

You do know that the higher the level, the less effect your starting position has, right? It takes 10 points to get from the Ranger start to the Shadow Tree and the Witch start to the Shadow tree. Therefore, there is at most a 10 point difference between those classes. When you have 120 passive points at level 100, do you really think 10 points makes so much difference that it makes the Shadow suck compared to Witch and Ranger?

OK Dirk, let's try to get some info out of this debate. Never mind how you come to the conclusion that the shadow underperforms. What would you suggest to change that?

You obviously cannot convince others that your conclusion is based on facts, so how about you drop that part and just discuss possible solutions. In general, you'd have had much better responses if you'd just skipped the whole "here I prove I'm right" bit and instead just wrote "I think the shadow is too weak. Could we buff it a bit by doing XXX?".

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

The remaining people on this thread basically came in here, called facts opinions and got really loud despite being completely 100% and undeniably, provably wrong.

I didn't discuss any of your numbers, [Removed by Support]

"

mark1030 wrote:

You do know that the higher the level, the less effect your starting position has, right? It takes 10 points to get from the Ranger start to the Shadow Tree and the Witch start to the Shadow tree. Therefore, there is at most a 10 point difference between those classes. When you have 120 passive points at level 100, do you really think 10 points makes so much difference that it makes the Shadow suck compared to Witch and Ranger?

Take 10 points off your build and try.