let's talk about your responses to "I Quit because loot system" threads

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Phrazz wrote:

JK is sort of right. From 0-65 you have a smooth progression. After level 70 or so, the drops just DO NOT match the rest of the content.

I don't think this is true, I think most of the time people are playing 'bad' builds or not playing their build properly.

Gear can work wonders, but you actually dont need something even resembling half decent gear to beat content. Give me access to an item generator where I can program any gear I want and I can make tons of shit builds work effectively. You could make just about any skill in the game op as fuck AND have amazing defenses if you had absolute ideal gear for every slot.

But seeing as you dont have the item generator or fully mirror level gear you can't make shit builds good, you actually have to play good, balanced builds and play them properly, and that is what people are not doing, that is why they are failing. Yes if amazing gear dropped for you it would solve your problems, it would cover up the fact that what you are doing with you passives and play style is fundamentally wrong, that doesnt mean you need that gear. It means you need to play a build that actually works with the level of gear you can realistically find, of which there are heaps even if you are going it self found starting with absolutely nothing.

No, sry you cant play that 300k crit dps ci build you saw in the forums that needs 200 exalts of gear to even function properly, thats not a problem, the problem is why you thought it would be a good idea to try it with 20 chaos worth of gear when the results are worse than playing a far more realistic build. I honestly believe people are doing things completely wrong, then looking at highly specialist builds with exquisite gear on the forums and saying "its because I dont have these items that I fail", meanwhile they vendor a set of gear every day that could beat the content they have problems with if used properly.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are arguing that people need to forget about the builds they want to play because the proper way to play this game is to define your build around the items you drop?

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Perfect_Black wrote:

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Shagsbeard wrote:

I don't go looking for items that I want... I look for what I can do with the items I get.

At some point, it is not about wanting items but requiring
them to make any forward defensive/offensive progress.

If I am a primarily ES based Witch, defensively, then it is not that I necessarily want ES gear, but that it is generally the most appropriate and synergistic gear for my character. Of course, I want the ES gear too, but before wanting it, it is what is naturally best for the character.

Of course, I may be able to salvage a pure armour piece or some ES hybrid pieces, but at the end of it all, I still need the pure ES pieces simply because they are what would be the most effective.

Forsaken Masters, I think, has helped to somewhat balance the randomness of loot by giving players avenues to salvage gear, but it does not change the fact that the loot system by itself is implemented in such a way that it can arbitrarily gate one from progressing their gear solely through grinding; if you hit a gear wall, then it all comes down luck and economy, and maybe a bit of knowledge, as to whether or not you will move forward with your gears effectiveness. This absolute non-reliability of the loot system can easily create a feeling of futility in gear progression for players at late to end game; I know I have reached the "futility point"; I tried to grind through it and eventually gave up because it was simply unreasonable. Maybe Forsaken Masters has made pushing through gear walls more reasonable.

Please suggest an alternative. Getting all the best loot right away? Getting all the best loot by playing for 100 hours? Then what? ARPGs is about chasing a moving target, you get this goodie, and ther is a new shiney just within reach. It is simple, almost mundane. It works, to some extent. It is entertaining for a while. Then maybe we can try to do something interesting instead. Like making a weird build which just might be ok-ish, but nowhere near the proven GG builds. Then it is nice that decent gear is easy to get. Which it is. People's standards are too high.

All I ever expect to find are rares to use for the chaos recipe. Take the chaos and trade them for whatever currency you need to master craft yourself some good gear. Theres pretty much a guaranteed way for your to get the gear you need to play higher lvl maps if you grind enough. Really all the game needs is a way for you to obtain orbs like exalts through vendor recipes and then everyone who wanted could play self found EZ heck id even do it next HC league just to show people and ive never played HC in any ARPG lol.

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All I ever expect to find are rares to use for the chaos recipe. Take the chaos and trade them for whatever currency you need to master craft yourself some good gear. Theres pretty much a guaranteed way for your to get the gear you need to play higher lvl maps if you grind enough. Really all the game needs is a way for you to obtain orbs like exalts through vendor recipes and then everyone who wanted could play self found EZ heck id even do it next HC league just to show people and ive never played HC in any ARPG lol.

If there was an exalt recipe I presume the best gear would cost mirrors from now on. But that is not the point. You can play hard core high level maps with a handful of transmutes and white items, if you pick an OP build. Regal them for crazy side-kick builds. The belief that you need super OP gear to play this game is nonsense. Look at me, I'm half mad and I can still do high end maps in hardcore self found and I don't even know how to play.

@Nutuis: Even though this is skipping to johnKeys' #7 goal, my personal suggestion, which is not an alternative but rather an augmentation to what is already in place, and may not be as useful now with FM, is to have two separate loot mechanics, one for party play and one for solo play. Party play stays exactly as is, total RNG with party boosts. Solo play would see a new 'relevancy' mechanic within the world drop algorithm(s). This 'relevancy' mechanic would gently tie base item world drops to the owning character's balance of STR/INT/DEX in order to give him/her better odds of looting base items that align with his/her build. You could view it as a similar implementation to the Chromatic Orb's functionality: you are more likely to drop what is closely aligned with your character and less likely to drop what is less aligned. So, over time solo players could see a greater percentage of relevant loot and know that grinding a zone means new opportunities for relevant loot because it is built into the loot mechanics. Essentially, a solo loot scheme centered around the player, not the economy.

As you can see, my idea is not about making nice items rain, but making the items that do rain have a higher probability of being useful/relevant to the finding character. The way Chromatic Orbs work with base items makes a lot of sense to me, and I think that a similar functionality could make a lot of sense for world drops.

exactly ` exalts are relativly worthless to 99% of us...choas has more utility...only reason stuff is priced in it is its scarcity ppl would just move into something more scarce.

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Perfect_Black wrote:

@Nutuis: Even though this is skipping to johnKeys' #7 goal, my personal suggestion, which is not an alternative but rather an augmentation to what is already in place, and may not be as useful now with FM, is to have two separate loot mechanics, one for party play and one for solo play. Party play stays exactly as is, total RNG with party boosts. Solo play would see a new 'relevancy' mechanic within the world drop algorithm(s). This 'relevancy' mechanic would gently tie base item world drops to the owning character's balance of STR/INT/DEX in order to give him/her better odds of looting base items that align with his/her build. You could view it as a similar implementation to the Chromatic Orb's functionality: you are more likely to drop what is closely aligned with your character and less likely to drop what is less aligned. So, over time solo players could see a greater percentage of relevant loot and know that grinding a zone means new opportunities for relevant loot because it is built into the loot mechanics. Essentially, a solo loot scheme centered around the player, not the economy.

As you can see, my idea is not about making nice items rain, but making the items that do rain have a higher probability of being useful/relevant to the finding character. The way Chromatic Orbs work with base items makes a lot of sense to me, and I think that a similar functionality could make a lot of sense for world drops.

Good suggestion, as long as they make it toggleable (is that a word? It shouldn't be).

Not everyone would be happy, but good luck making everyone happy. I would be ok with it, and toggle it to "off".

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Nutius wrote:

If there was an exalt recipe I presume the best gear would cost mirrors from now on. But that is not the point. You can play hard core high level maps with a handful of transmutes and white items, if you pick an OP build. Regal them for crazy side-kick builds. The belief that you need super OP gear to play this game is nonsense. Look at me, I'm half mad and I can still do high end maps in hardcore self found and I don't even know how to play.

Who would spend multiple mirrors on gear that can be mirrored for a lot less? Also if there was an exalt recepie it would have no impact on how often eternals are found. Et to ex ratio would be a lot more and at most a few people would get lucky with a yolo exalt since they would be easier to come by but obviously GGG would balance the recepie to some degree.

Your entire post makes no sence really it seems your saying I have no idea how to play the game when you say things like "Look at me, I'm half mad and I can still do high end maps in hardcore self found and I don't even know how to play." Then I check your profile and you have no high lvl HC characters. Maybe you have another account and I'm misunderstanding you.

Anyways let me be 100% clear here if you think you need the drop rates to be better in this game in order for you to progress you may want to start reading some guides and watching some streamers because this is not the case. You don't need an op build any modest build will do just fine with enough grinding and using the master craft system.

If you want to play whatever build you want then more power to you! I've got a lot of inefficient characters that are fun to play. But expecting to compete at the highest lvl of play with any build you want is just silly.

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Nutius wrote:

Your entire post makes no sence really it seems your saying I have no idea how to play the game when you say things like "Look at me, I'm half mad and I can still do high end maps in hardcore self found and I don't even know how to play." Then I check your profile and you have no high lvl HC characters. Maybe you have another account and I'm misunderstanding you.

I told you I was half mad.

The reason I am here and not ingame, is that my poor lvl 83 (hold the applause, please) decided to move to standard league today. But she was capable of doing high-ish level maps, and I am sure she could have done any level white map with some care. A pitty she decided to move server.

I don't see how my accident has got anything to do with it, though. You don't need OP gear to do high level HC maps.

When it comes to exalts/eternals/mirrors you are right I do not know what I am talking about. Told you I was mad. I take your word for it, since I know very little of the matter. I just presumed the reason prices shift from 1-2C to 1E and very few items cost 20C is that people are gating GG items behind the exalted gate. I am most probably wrong.

The last part, when you claim I think drop rates are low, is that an application to the mad-club? We do not accept new members at this moment, thank you. I have argued that you do indeed NOT need GG items to do HC HL maps all evening (well, three posts).