let's talk about your responses to "I Quit because loot system" threads

"

Nutius wrote:

The belief that you need super OP gear to play this game is nonsense.

That's not the point.
I've done all the content except uber, and still consider having quite shitty gear.

The point is that at some point upgrading just becomes a tedious grind.
The best items are so hard to get that you're better off stopping that char and doing something else.

Which I fail to understand. What would be the problem if people could actually complete a build in 1 or 2 months? I mean the level of build you see on the forum without mirrored gear.

"

Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

"

Nutius wrote:

The belief that you need super OP gear to play this game is nonsense.

That's not the point.
I've done all the content except uber, and still consider having quite shitty gear.

The point is that at some point upgrading just becomes a tedious grind.
The best items are so hard to get that you're better off stopping that char and doing something else.

Which I fail to understand. What would be the problem if people could actually complete a build in 1 or 2 months? I mean the level of build you see on the forum without mirrored gear.

My guess is because the game then would be over. Or would anyone keep playing with best in slot gear, grinding and grinding for... hmmm... nothing? "This game has no endgame! You get best in slot gear in a month and then what?! No goals! No targets? It's due to lazy developers, ignoring end-game and all."

And then they would probably add some even-better-gear to give people a purpose after the first month... and what have we got then? The game is back to it's current state.

That's my guess.

"

Nutius wrote:

I told you I was half mad.

The reason I am here and not ingame, is that my poor lvl 83 (hold the applause, please) decided to move to standard league today. But she was capable of doing high-ish level maps, and I am sure she could have done any level white map with some care. A pitty she decided to move server.

I don't see how my accident has got anything to do with it, though. You don't need OP gear to do high level HC maps.

When it comes to exalts/eternals/mirrors you are right I do not know what I am talking about. Told you I was mad. I take your word for it, since I know very little of the matter. I just presumed the reason prices shift from 1-2C to 1E and very few items cost 20C is that people are gating GG items behind the exalted gate. I am most probably wrong.

The last part, when you claim I think drop rates are low, is that an application to the mad-club? We do not accept new members at this moment, thank you. I have argued that you do indeed NOT need GG items to do HC HL maps all evening (well, three posts).

Yes I thought I might be misunderstanding you thanks for clearing it up. Also my comments about drop rates and such wernt directed at you FYI I am agreeing with you perfect gear isn't needed in this game.

Here's my loot experience in PoE.

I played for about 18 months with really only about 6 weeks worth of solid breaks in that time. Without really ever doing much trading, it forced me into a scenario where I obviously had to grind the heck out of the game to get anywhere.

I did my time in docks.
I did my time in Lunaris.
I did my time in 66's ----> 70's.

Never got a drop better than Rainbowstrides for over 14 months, but I'd still managed to accumulate between 10 - 20 ex worth of currency and occasionally spring for that next upgrade.

But then something happened after probably 250+ map runs, I was doing a Blue Reef and a brown Hubris Circlet dropped. It looked nice and the unique mod it had seemed cool, but I knew I'd probably never use it. I was clueless of it's worth, I knew no better. Eventually a day or two later I realised that this pre-nerf CoE was worth between 40 - 60 ex depending.

Was this what a great drop felt like?
No OMG moment. Just oh yeah that's pretty cool, keep grinding. Just an empty feeling of you've won the lottery a day later when it's value is revealed. What if it had dropped two months later? Still no OMG moment?

It sold quickly for 45 ex and suddenly my stash had nearly tripled in value immediately.
Wow right? Wrong.

Since then I've never shook the feeling that I wasted 14 months grinding my arse off for nothing but chump change, only to find the lucky slot machine on some shitty blue map. And I've felt nothing but disconnect from the game ever since.

"

Xavderion wrote:

john reminds me of a light version of ARPGFan.

Indeed

Fucking Indeed

"

johnKeys wrote:

how many times did you get a drop you felt you deserved? earned with skill/dedication/knowledge? crafted something truly great from orbs you dropped or "recipe'd" all by yourself, and it didn't feel like just a lucky roll of the dice?

Many, many, many times, and here's where I think you and some others have missed a big and important point about PoE that's worth researching along with builds.

What is wealth?
A very large accumulation of small currency. Even the smallest amount is contributing towards your eventual 10,000 ex hoard. There are many ways to speed it up, most of which you don't have to use and you can still do just fine.

What is luck?
Something that by definition doesn't happen often. What's the best approach to getting some luck? Well, think about how you get more item drops and extrapolate :P

If you spend all your time using a deficit model of thinking - "I have NEVER got a shavs to drop!!!?! I tried to craft X item and it FAILED?!" then you'll be wasting your own time playing a game you hate because your expectations are unrealistic.

There is an inherent problem with the idea that players should be rewarded more for tougher content in a game such as this:

Build diversity.

It is a simple fact of this game that some builds find some content easier (or more difficult) than others.

Does the OP really want GGG to somehow code loot tables with this in mind? Should turning RF on immediatly make you move to crapier lootz, lower currency drops?
Should i have to account for the loot tables into my build theorycraft?

threads like this always make me think "Ok, interesting point. Now what the fuck do you really want?" I get that the OP wants to feel rewarded for winning a tough fight, but thats not what hes actually asking for...
Perhaps Johnkeys can answer this:
What does JohnKeys want the loot system to achieve? How could this be done in a game with an ever changing meta?

B.

"

IceHawk181 wrote:

So, if I understand you correctly, you are arguing that people need to forget about the builds they want to play because the proper way to play this game is to define your build around the items you drop?

well define what you want to play? Say I want to play a low life build with heavy strike cast on crit single ball lightning using a 2 handed mace, should that work because that is what I want to play? Sounds to me like a complete clusterfuck of an idea. Not every build imaginable can be viable otherwise theres no point to the game, there must be good build ideas that work, and bad build ideas that don't work. If you find you get to a point where your character can't continue because the level of gear your build needs just to clear basic content is impossible to find, guess what, youre playing a bad build. Maybe there is a ridiculous level of gear in theory that would allow your build to be so unbalanced and still work, and yes it probably exists on standard in AXNs shop, maybe the build becomes awesome when you have a 900es chest and a 500dps dagger, Im sure many builds are awesome when you have that sort of gear. If it is gear that you know you cant obtain then theyre not good builds to be playing, they dont work.

For everyone to be able to play any build they want, they need to have any item they want. Should everyone have access to every item possible? No, obviously not.

"

Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

What would be the problem if people could actually complete a build in 1 or 2 months? I mean the level of build you see on the forum without mirrored gear.

but what do you mean by complete a build without mirrored gear? Get to the point where you can beat all the content you have access to but don't have perfect gear? That is already possible, I can't understand what problem people are having doing this. I got bored of Rampage and went to Hardcore to play completely solo, self found from a fresh start. Ive been there less than a month, leveled three builds to 80+, all of which can beat all the content I have access to. I havent even come remotely close to dying at any stage, never alt+f4ed.

reave duelist



bow ranger



cast on crit cold ranger



I could gear another 5 characters like this with crap I have found that is in my stash. The gear looks so awful compared to my characters on standard where just the chest armour costs 20x as much as all that gear put together, but they can still destroy all the maps I have access to. The bow ranger is the highest level at 84 and she could easy beat level 78 maps, not that you should be in lvl78 maps at level 84 when you can get close to 100% xp from mid 70s at that point and not that I have actually found maps that high. I shouldn't be there, I'm not there because of the map system (working as intended), the gear is not the reason I'm not chaining 78s all day.

"

totalbackline wrote:

Here's my loot experience in PoE.

I played for about 18 months with really only about 6 weeks worth of solid breaks in that time. Without really ever doing much trading, it forced me into a scenario where I obviously had to grind the heck out of the game to get anywhere.

I did my time in docks.
I did my time in Lunaris.
I did my time in 66's ----> 70's.

Never got a drop better than Rainbowstrides for over 14 months, but I'd still managed to accumulate between 10 - 20 ex worth of currency and occasionally spring for that next upgrade.

But then something happened after probably 250+ map runs, I was doing a Blue Reef and a brown Hubris Circlet dropped. It looked nice and the unique mod it had seemed cool, but I knew I'd probably never use it. I was clueless of it's worth, I knew no better. Eventually a day or two later I realised that this pre-nerf CoE was worth between 40 - 60 ex depending.

Was this what a great drop felt like?
No OMG moment. Just oh yeah that's pretty cool, keep grinding. Just an empty feeling of you've won the lottery a day later when it's value is revealed. What if it had dropped two months later? Still no OMG moment?

It sold quickly for 45 ex and suddenly my stash had nearly tripled in value immediately.
Wow right? Wrong.

Since then I've never shook the feeling that I wasted 14 months grinding my arse off for nothing but chump change, only to find the lucky slot machine on some shitty blue map. And I've felt nothing but disconnect from the game ever since.

you could probably have made 100s of exalts in that time selling things you didnt realise the worth of for 2 chaos here, 5 chaos there, 20 chaos for that one (what rly? for that crappy rare glove? Yes), leveling gems to 20/20 and selling them etc. You don't need high ticket uniques to gain considerable wealth, theyre just a once in a blue moon thing that lets you make 3 weeks worth of currency in 1 transaction. Wealth is built on many trades per day for a handful of chaos each.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

Spoiler

"

IceHawk181 wrote:

So, if I understand you correctly, you are arguing that people need to forget about the builds they want to play because the proper way to play this game is to define your build around the items you drop?

well define what you want to play? Say I want to play a low life build with heavy strike cast on crit single ball lightning using a 2 handed mace, should that work because that is what I want to play? Sounds to me like a complete clusterfuck of an idea. Not every build imaginable can be viable otherwise theres no point to the game, there must be good build ideas that work, and bad build ideas that don't work. If you find you get to a point where your character can't continue because the level of gear your build needs just to clear basic content is impossible to find, guess what, youre playing a bad build. Maybe there is a ridiculous level of gear in theory that would allow your build to be so unbalanced and still work, and yes it probably exists on standard in AXNs shop, maybe the build becomes awesome when you have a 900es chest and a 500dps dagger, Im sure many builds are awesome when you have that sort of gear. If it is gear that you know you cant obtain then theyre not good builds to be playing, they dont work.

For everyone to be able to play any build they want, they need to have any item they want. Should everyone have access to every item possible? No, obviously not.

"

Squirrel_of_doom wrote:

What would be the problem if people could actually complete a build in 1 or 2 months? I mean the level of build you see on the forum without mirrored gear.

but what do you mean by complete a build without mirrored gear? Get to the point where you can beat all the content you have access to but don't have perfect gear? That is already possible, I can't understand what problem people are having doing this. I got bored of Rampage and went to Hardcore to play completely solo, self found from a fresh start. Ive been there less than a month, leveled three builds to 80+, all of which can beat all the content I have access to. I havent even come remotely close to dying at any stage, never alt+f4ed.

reave duelist

Spoiler

bow ranger

Spoiler

cast on crit cold ranger

Spoiler

I could gear another 5 characters like this with crap I have found that is in my stash. The gear looks so awful compared to my characters on standard where just the chest armour costs 20x as much as all that gear put together, but they can still destroy all the maps I have access to. The bow ranger is the highest level at 84 and she could easy beat level 78 maps, not that you should be in lvl78 maps at level 84 when you can get close to 100% xp from mid 70s at that point and not that I have actually found maps that high. I shouldn't be there, I'm not there because of the map system (working as intended), the gear is not the reason I'm not chaining 78s all day.

"

totalbackline wrote:

Here's my loot experience in PoE.

I played for about 18 months with really only about 6 weeks worth of solid breaks in that time. Without really ever doing much trading, it forced me into a scenario where I obviously had to grind the heck out of the game to get anywhere.

I did my time in docks.
I did my time in Lunaris.
I did my time in 66's ----> 70's.

Never got a drop better than Rainbowstrides for over 14 months, but I'd still managed to accumulate between 10 - 20 ex worth of currency and occasionally spring for that next upgrade.

But then something happened after probably 250+ map runs, I was doing a Blue Reef and a brown Hubris Circlet dropped. It looked nice and the unique mod it had seemed cool, but I knew I'd probably never use it. I was clueless of it's worth, I knew no better. Eventually a day or two later I realised that this pre-nerf CoE was worth between 40 - 60 ex depending.

Was this what a great drop felt like?
No OMG moment. Just oh yeah that's pretty cool, keep grinding. Just an empty feeling of you've won the lottery a day later when it's value is revealed. What if it had dropped two months later? Still no OMG moment?

It sold quickly for 45 ex and suddenly my stash had nearly tripled in value immediately.
Wow right? Wrong.

Since then I've never shook the feeling that I wasted 14 months grinding my arse off for nothing but chump change, only to find the lucky slot machine on some shitty blue map. And I've felt nothing but disconnect from the game ever since.

you could probably have made 100s of exalts in that time selling things you didnt realise the worth of for 2 chaos here, 5 chaos there, 20 chaos for that one (what rly? for that crappy rare glove? Yes), leveling gems to 20/20 and selling them etc. You don't need high ticket uniques to gain considerable wealth, theyre just a once in a blue moon thing that lets you make 3 weeks worth of currency in 1 transaction. Wealth is built on many trades per day for a handful of chaos each.

I'm going to have to +1 practically everything that Snorkle has to say.

I started with Standard during the Ana/Ons season, with the mindset that the only way to successfully do "end-game" chaining of 78s was to maintain a proper shop, selling decent items for volume wealth and a few more desirable (but not big ticket) for a bit more. So when Domination rolled along, I judiciously maintained a shop. Got me a nice flow of currency, and I didn't even know much about the game back then.

I personally found it too tiring to play the league, maintain a proper shop, as well as play races, so I stopped doing that in Ambush. I did set up a thread to sell items that could net me ~10c or so at least, and sold less than 10 items the entire league, serving to supplement most of my "wealth" coming from farming maps. I did mainly currency trading (read: not flipping) to acquire Chaos to roll my maps. I was chaining 76-78s perfectly fine. Not a single map bought from others.

Now I'm even lazier; in Rampage I have not bothered to set up a thread to sell stuff, I still do currency trading to sustain my maps and to buy items from other people's shops. I give away items in Global that are somewhat useful (mostly random 5Ls and popular gems) but are not being used by me. I'm still chaining 76-78s with no sweat.

How? I chose to play budget builds that I liked the concept of. There's a ton of these available on forums. That's my idea of fun. If I can clear end-game maps with no incoming wealth from selling items, if Snorkle can do so solo self-found (with all due respect, I think that's masochistic lol), perhaps people who gripe about the loot system affecting the build they want to play should think about what they really want from the game.

So many people getting shafted... and loving it. Some masochistic tendencies going on. Add some circlejerk and some selfrigtheousness and tadaaa, you got 70% of the PoE community.