let's talk about your responses to "I Quit because loot system" threads

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Phrazz wrote:

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Sneakypaw wrote:

This is like Shouting for a Dictatorship in a Democratic Land.

I say: If you want a dictatorship, look for another Land to live in. There are plenty.

JohnKeys says: I will stay and make annoying protests every other day. I am sure that is time well spent.

UN calls my country "the best country in the world". We're one of the richest too. And yes, it is of course a democratic country.

But! Said country has A LOT of flaws (education, health care etc...), and as I live in a democratic country, I see it as my democratic duty to speak up for these flaws.

As is PoE. Many people sees the loot system as flawed. Played two years of end game mapping, and has nothing to show for it. And in a democratic country (read: forum/community), we have the right to speak, without being told to leave.

Spoiler

Can we please stop using stupid comparisons now?

This is no democracy. We can voice our opinion, but we have no say. GGG decides everything.
Haven't you ever read the Rules?

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keta wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

I actually don't play as much as I used too because I'm tired of grinding more and more stuff every season.

I now I have grind and possibly regrind masters every season.

I have to grind vaal gems + vaal area.

I have to grind for fragments then grind for a character that can beat that boss.

I have to grind an MF character to grind more gear for other characters.

I have to regrind all 3 areas again 3x over like the previous season, and since they are planning to keep in cruel grind 4 areas 3x over.

Ect.

Jesus I'll go play WoW or an MMO or something.

It's a grinding game and you complain about grind ? It's like play car game and complain about driving car...

They don't seem to be complaining about the car, they seem to be complaining about the fact it only goes 10 kph.

It is not the fact that we must grind to get what we want , it is that ggg has made little effort to make that grind interesting.


Whole games in this genre have thrived and died on how fun the grind is. and if the most boring aspects of your game are the most rewarding and the most fun aspects of your game are the least.

then mate, some thing is seriously wrong with the game.


Maps arent rewarding enough for the time and effort put in, this is a fact it is something many people have stopped playing for.

It is not fun running archives or what ever the fuck the latest corruption area of the day is
Just so we maximize are master leveling and corruption farming

just add a 50% multiplier to map master exp already and add corruption to maps , the gate will be the difficulty (since ilevel 78 corruption i can only imagine will be hell on earth anyway)

This is simple stuff here.

No one gives a fuck about non map content (unless they explicitly avoid maps) because the broken ass link system means everyone will just coast through the three difficulties using 6l tabulas or whatever high linked shit they acquired to melt everything in seconds.

(god i hate the item based link system and how it makes level 1 - 60 a worthless cake walk and a chore instead of a real challenge)

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RagnarokChu wrote:

I actually don't play as much as I used too because I'm tired of grinding more and more stuff every season.

I now I have grind and possibly regrind masters every season.

I have to grind vaal gems + vaal area.

I have to grind for fragments then grind for a character that can beat that boss.

I have to grind an MF character to grind more gear for other characters.

I have to regrind all 3 areas again 3x over like the previous season, and since they are planning to keep in cruel grind 4 areas 3x over.

Ect.

Jesus I'll go play WoW or an MMO or something.

GGG = GRINDING gear games.

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keta wrote:

It's a grinding game and you complain about grind ? It's like play car game and complain about driving car...

LOL +1

My definition of grinding must be different from yours because if the game told me to grind 100,000 mobs to unlock then next act and your telling me I should do that for every character because it's "grinding" then I easily can tell you I don't have time for that.

Since I only play ladder I do not have time to re-do masters along with everything else with a fresh character every 3 months.

Also it is not like playing a car game and complaining about driving a car, it's complaining that before I drive a car I have to build it from the ground-up with every single part hand picked and then repair it after every race. I didn't say I had any problems with farming maps, killing monsters or leveling.

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Jojas wrote:

Spoiler

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Shagsbeard wrote:

This game is defined by it's loot system. If you don't like it, you're going to have to find another game.

Of course it's very convenient for those who do like the system if everybody else just quietly leaves.
But is that really a good principle? Why not try to fight for what you think is right?

Just imagine PoE was much more restrictive in terms of loot, to the point that only very few people enjoy it, and GGG ultimately had to shut down shop because of no money. And everybody unhappy with that system would have just quietly left, leaving GGG a bit in the dark about the why.

Or, less harsh, GGG, having a gazillion things on their to-do list, would have a hard time figuring out how to prioritize them since everybody is of the attitude of either fully embracing everything they pour out, or, again, just quietly leaves.

Or, even less harsh, maybe someone does not like a certain mechanic and thinks he has a better idea. And the idea is indeed better, only that GGG, being humans, cannot know and see and think of everything. But said person is already on its way to find a better game, and GGG never finds out.

The urge to protect what you like is very understandable. But shutting people out and telling them to go elsewhere just cannot be the solution to that.

Shags is somewhat correct in implying it's all about quality vs. target audience, rather than overall "abstract" quality.

but I honestly find it hard to believe, there is a target audience of people, who like their fate decided on pseudo-independent dice rolls.

maybe some gamblers, though even "high rollers" do like every bit of control they can get.

in any case, the audience of people who like to take control of their fate is exponentially larger - which directly means more money.

and who knows, maybe it will make the game better too: a game which at the very least gives you an illusion of having control over what you get, without giving up on the good sides of RNG.
without the certainty of trade, but without the utter necessity of trade either.
"maybe".
better for most possible target audiences.
without for a second to stop kicking their asses - therefore still being "hardcore" - but kicking asses for a reason.

I disagree with Shag's statement that "the game is defined by its loot system". Imo, a loot system is a necessary and excepted aspect of any D2-style ARGP, where finding loot is a key feature. The loot system does not "define the game", it just defines an aspect of the game. Maybe the loot system, and how it has been implemented, can shed light on underlying developer philosophies that permeate the game in other areas, and we can better "define the game" using these pervasive philosophies; to say "the game is defined by its loot system" is just not accurate or inclusive enough to be realistic.

Imo, PoE's atmospheres/environments/art/music/sounds-effects/etc. along with the "visceral" combat add much more to what "defines" PoE than its loot system. If the loot system "defined" PoE, I think there would be far fewer players right now than there are. I am pretty sure no one is playing PoE just to experience the *cough* amazing looting experience that the game currently offers. Personally, I do not play PoE for its loot system at all. I was drawn in by the environments and the combat, or the "theme" if you will. The "theme" of Wraeclast means so much more to the game than how loot is determined. HOWEVER, there is no excuse to not improve the loot system as a means of improving the PoE experience overall and potentially augmenting what "defines" PoE.

Imo, the loot "system" is one of the games limiting factors and a part of what detracts from the game. If I saw the loot system as defining PoE, I would have quit shortly after starting to play, but the "theme" of Wraeclast itself, and omg the art/music, they give me a false sense of hope that the game is in fact the diamond in the rough that I want it to be. So, I will deal with a mediocre looting experience as a trade off to being able to experience the very interesting World of Wraeclast.

eventually every boss in the game becomes pretty easy, except magnus and maybe uber atziri and palce dom? But all 3 of those would still be easy for the elite. But if those were dropping top notch shit all of the time that would be pretty broken too.

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johnKeys wrote:

but I honestly find it hard to believe, there is a target audience of people, who like their fate decided on pseudo-independent dice rolls.

maybe some gamblers, though even "high rollers" do like every bit of control they can get.

in any case, the audience of people who like to take control of their fate is exponentially larger - which directly means more money.

and who knows, maybe it will make the game better too: a game which at the very least gives you an illusion of having control over what you get, without giving up on the good sides of RNG.
without the certainty of trade, but without the utter necessity of trade either.
"maybe".
better for most possible target audiences.
without for a second to stop kicking their asses - therefore still being "hardcore" - but kicking asses for a reason.

Well, you can't control drops directly (except for IIQ and IIR) but I don't think you can't control your fate in this game.

There are many ways to use your odds at your favor (rerolling/vaaling strongboxes, recipes, masters), but they are hard to learn. That seems hardcore to me.

It's not a combat based/deterministic progression, but a probabilistic one. It's more interesting.

Not that there are not things to adjust (maps aknowledging difficulty could be a good example).

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NeroNoah wrote:

Well, you can't control drops directly (except for IIQ and IIR) but I don't think you can't control your fate in this game.

There are many ways to use your odds at your favor (rerolling/vaaling strongboxes, recipes, masters), but they are hard to learn. That seems hardcore to me.

It's not a combat based/deterministic progression, but a probabilistic one. It's more interesting.

Not that there are not things to adjust (maps aknowledging difficulty could be a good example).

I'll just be straightforward here. no metaphors:

had this game been actually risk/reward, you'd know a stupidly-crazy map with Double Boss + extra damage + reflect + minus max + the fires of hell burning your backside every 5 seconds - equals noticeably better loot.

right now, it's just meaningless numbers to troll you.
like those +9001% rarity Strongboxes that drop utter crap.
you can run above insane map and not get a single map, or at best one more vendor-grade rare.
and then you'll run a white Shore and *jackpot 6-link!*.
happy? yes.
earned it? hell no!
it's the map version of "exalt from a barrel in Ledge". RNG kicking it up a notch.

IIR? instead of randomly rolling a 20-sided die, you are randomly rolling a 19-sided one.
you still need to hit "7" ten times in a row.
I hope this makes you feel better.

there's only one thing you can do to really control your fate: trade.
and each time you trade, is time you aren't killing things.
in a game that's supposed to be about killing things. I hope.

P.S: speaking of Exalts from barrels, don't get me started about the Exalted Orb.
so damn randomly rare. so damn randomly unpredictable.
there's good reason why it's a dollar bill, and nothing more.
and most other orbs too. they are called "currency" even by GGG.
for several years, this game had absolutely no crafting. Masters finally changed that a bit.

even Carrots in this game, aren't really "Carrots" at all.

Well, people with IIR and IIQ seems to have consistently better loot for what I saw.

And yes, the 2000% increased rarity is useless, but you better know your math. Mirrored, +rare items, + aditional items are better ideas. I bet you are one of those that prefer a sword and not mathematics, but it's not like there is no skill involved.

You are being a little hyperbolic here.

Yes, the maps need to recognize difficulty, but no, you are not totally at the mercy of RNG, there are strategies that work for many people.

PS: agree with the exalt thing, but GGG should have to implement a replacement that doesn't feel so crap.