Are the Devs still making the game they want to play?

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rrtson wrote:
GGG is a business and Path of Exile is their product. The sole purpose of a business is to make as much money as possible.

The original devs who started out making PoE probably had a grand/stubborn vision of making a game that they wanted to play, but as the company grew bigger and the player base increased in size, they realized that they will have to make some design decisions that will cater to "the masses", even if it means those decisions go against their original vision.


That's an enormous exaggeration being picked out of a minor reality.

Yes, they have to pay the bills. No, they don't have to bend over backwards to do so.

They could make the game P2W at any time and very likely make a small fortune in a very short amount of time. The game would most certainly die out much faster, but it wouldn't matter if the founders were walking away with seven-figures (in the context of them being strictly a business).

I'd like to think that'll never happen though.

IGN: Smegmazoid
Long live the new Flesh
"it is now COMPLETELY MISSING from the game"

Lol dude. It's still there. You're free to make your own group, or find your own "hardcore" friends and play ninja mode.

IF 99% of people don't want to play that way, but it's still in the game... Your complaint is that people don't want to play that way, not that it's been removed.

VI
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ConanTheGamebarian wrote:
"it is now COMPLETELY MISSING from the game"

Lol dude. It's still there. You're free to make your own group, or find your own "hardcore" friends and play ninja mode.

IF 99% of people don't want to play that way, but it's still in the game... Your complaint is that people don't want to play that way, not that it's been removed.


He doesnt want to steal from his friends if he has any, he wants to steal from random people he doesnt know.

With a well working group FFA or short allocation can work very well. I leave all items in short allocation for the person it was allocated for and i did that before we had the 3 allocation system.

FFA is best used in races and of course with trusted people you can count on that they give you an item that they know will be an upgrade for you and vice versa.

Basically: Strangers -> PA, Friends/guild buddies -> SA, Races/friends/guild birds -> FFA
FFA is one of those features that are "cool" on paper, and that people think would be fun if they were the ones grabbing items, but in practice they will miss out on them because someone else will always be faster, more ruthless or more anti-social.

It's like Cutthroat. People also think that is "cool", but after the first month very few will participate, because most people will not cut it.

Everyone wants to be a wolf, and no one wants to be the sheep.
Spoiler
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Ten_of_Swords wrote:
While discussing why GGG initially decided to go with FFA loot for PoE and why they eventually added "Loot Options" in April 2013 (0.11.0 patch) in the now removed development manifesto:

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Chris wrote:
because all of our developers are ninja-looters and love extreme item tension, but after talking with a lot of players, we realised that many people would have a lot more fun if we offered these options.

I think it's fine that players who don't like "item tension" now have the ability to opt-out by choosing Permanent Allocation. (PA)

However, as we have discussed many times on the forums, there are nearly zero FFA or SA public games - particularly in HC four month leagues and in endgame maps:

* Almost all public games that are Short Allocation (SA) are either that way because the game host forgot to change the setting before opening it to the public (to the dismay of anyone joining thinking they were entering SA game) Or they become PA after anyone in the groups says "can we change it to Perm?" - Normally after the first wisdom scroll goes to the wrong person.

* The PA setting is easier from the standpoint of "less hassle" and from the "no need to move into danger to get loot" perspectives - There is simply nothing anyone can say in response to a request to change the setting to PA loot. "It’s more fun" does not cut it when everyone knows what setting is easier. (In HC preventing character death is #1 concern, because getting moved to Standard League will spoil any "more fun" you might have been having)

I have actually joined SA and FFA games where "SA" or "FFA" was directly in the name of the group where the setting was changed to PA after a few minutes when someone requests it. I have hosted such games as well and had people ask me to change the setting - and I will because I don’t want to argue or have players leave the group. Now, myself and many others I know that did appreciate "item tension" don’t even bother.

I do not think it’s okay that "permanent allocation" is the only used setting for public games.

The very intention of adding "loot options" was so that players could play what they preferred - this is SIMPLY NOT HAPPENING. These options were added without any factors to balance them whatsoever in terms of difficulty. It was obvious that players would choose to not have to fight over loot if they could avoid it - everyone who argued aginst loot options pointed this out, and it turns out they were right.

The only exceptions I am aware of are games where someone is selling rushes or boss kills for orbs/payment so they can collect all loot as they do it, or the games where someone is selling items. So, they were not actually public games anyhow.

While I'm honestly not always a fan of "extreme item tension" the way Chris puts it, (I am not a ninja looter, never was) I am very much in favor of dynamics that encourage players to share loot and work together, like we saw in the closed/open beta seasons.

Therefore, my question to the Developers of PoE is this:

If you “all LOVE extreme loot tension” and it is obvious that it is now COMPLETELY MISSING from the game – are you still making “the game you want to play”?


what u write makes no sense.
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens
My QoL List: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3279646
This is why there's absolutely no chance at all I'll ever play one of these games multi-player. It's not the loot options. It's the whining about them.
Disclaimer: I can speak only for myself, not other devs.
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Ten_of_Swords wrote:
Therefore, my question to the Developers of PoE is this:

If you “all LOVE extreme loot tension” and it is obvious that it is now COMPLETELY MISSING from the game – are you still making “the game you want to play”?
It's not completely missing from the game. Whenever I play PoE (I haven't found the time for a little bit, but intend to start up our usual weekly group again soon if I can), we have SA on. I don't think I've ever played with PA.

Loot tension is not "COMPLETELY MISSING" - you've (perhaps) shown that it's at least mostly absent from public parties, but those aren't "the game", and if we were to limit the game to only what I, as a dev, want to play, public parties would be just as gone as permanent item allocation - I have no interest in either. My ability to play the game I want to play is completely unaffected by other people having the option to play with permanent allocation in exactly the same was as it's unaffected by other people having the ability to play in public parties if that's what they want (weirdos :P)

Now you may well be right that there's an issue with people who want to play in public parties, with short allocation so they can enjoy loot tension, being unable to find accommodating parties. I suspect you are, and while I don't have any solutions to offer right now, I do hope that can change. But presenting your argument by claiming that SA isn't in the game, and the game isn't what we want to play any more, is wrong. And at least in this dev's case, talking about "how the dev's want to play" has no relevance to public parties, since they have no overlap.
FFA loot is missing.


I love FFA loot it's is my prefered way of playing . i ALWAYS make my pub games FFA , and i play alone all the time.

Sometimes people join my room do 1 run with me bitch about me stealing " thare" stuff then they call me a name and leave , it hurts my fellings.


I really miss FFA , the option of perma loot destroyed it , it may as well be removed from the game :(

Edit :


@ mark

It may as well not be in the game . I can't get my friends to play FFA , i can't have a pub game FFA , and i can't join in others games and play FFA. I.E. FFA dose not exsist in PoE end of sentence :( it's sad


Edit #2 :


It's really sad to because FFA loot makes poe WAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! more fun to play. positioning your character for loot drops , always being very carfull in how u aproch combat vs how much risk u chose to take for loot is very interesting.

POE is at it's best in a FFA loot situation . Perma loot servers a porpous i understand how and why people may want it, i feel that people are incorect in this and have simply become lazy dew to MMO style of loot however this is not a MMO so... yha FFA is king in ANY ARPG.
Just a sec let me grab a beer...@#*@ Ok how did I die this time

Learn the rules, it's the only way to exploit them.
Last edited by SirSid#5235 on May 8, 2014, 11:18:24 PM
Always hated FFa

Even if I am the only melee and was able to ninja what I wanted at my own leisure, I would feel guilty doing so.

On the other hand if something good drops and they get it first its like I was punched in the stomach.

Me and most people just don't find that fun and I literally see no benifet in this system.

Sure if you don't personally see much value the items (hence why the devs all share their opinion.... they just play for fun, good drops mean less to them), then I could see you just laughing if you lose an eternal orb. But to most people things like that are serious fuckin business and could literally stop playing over it.
Last edited by Splift#4377 on May 8, 2014, 11:18:46 PM
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SirSid wrote:
It may as well not be in the game . I can't get my friends to play FFA , i can't have a pub game FFA , and i can't join in others games and play FFA. I.E. FFA dose not exsist in PoE end of sentence :( it's sad


So you'd rather force people? If there are no FFA games, it is because an overwhelming majority of people do not enjoy it, do not want it, and have no interest in playing with that option.

Permanent Allocation didn't "kill" anything. It liberated players from an enforced playstyle that they did not enjoy or want.

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