Why pure caster is unplayable on late game comparing to physical damage

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Sheriff_K wrote:

I think people overestimate the actual DPS of a CoC build, it's not as overpowered as everyone seems to think...

It's barely better than self-cast in my opinion, gets less Supports, has Passives stretched thin, and pretty much requires a 6L..

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Skellimancer wrote:

Yeah sure. watching one run ahead and 1 shotting everything on screen sure isn't overpowered.

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RickyDMMontoya wrote:

CoC can (conservatively) proc say 10 times (using multi projectile ST or chain Split Arrow/ Barrage) per attack. If players could cast as fast as they can attack (they can't), then for the two supports you lose, you gain 10 times the cast speed.

Even if those two supports made the hard-cast spell do double the damage of the CoC version, the CoC player still has !5! times the damage per second as the hard-caster.

Now when you figure that in the right circumstances, CoC can proc way more than 10 times per click, and characters can attack 3-4 times faster than players can cast spells, and you can load a second duplicate copy of the spell into your CoC instead of a support gem for an immediate 100% MORE damage, it's clear that CoC builds can easily do 20 to 30 TIMES more damage per second than hard casting players.

It's a bit ridiculous.

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Veruski wrote:

except that a CoC build can generally stack up attack speed as high as they want at little additional expense

try seeing what happens when you try scaling up your cast speed as a self caster....

there's a reason why the only people claiming to be able to do this are saying "hey guys check out my blood magic build"

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Sheriff_K wrote:

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RickyDMMontoya wrote:

CoC can (conservatively) proc say 10 times (using multi projectile ST or chain Split Arrow/ Barrage) per attack. If players could cast as fast as they can attack (they can't), then for the two supports you lose, you gain 10 times the cast speed.

Even if those two supports made the hard-cast spell do double the damage of the CoC version, the CoC player still has !5! times the damage per second as the hard-caster.

Now when you figure that in the right circumstances, CoC can proc way more than 10 times per click, and characters can attack 3-4 times faster than players can cast spells, and you can load a second duplicate copy of the spell into your CoC instead of a support gem for an immediate 100% MORE damage, it's clear that CoC builds can easily do 20 to 30 TIMES more damage per second than hard casting players.

It's a bit ridiculous.

Actually, you gotta go with a Crits per Second, or rather a Triggers per Second, before you can start calculating CoC DPS.

And with CoC builds lacking in the way of Accuracy their Chance to Hit, which also affects Crits landing, is fairly mediocre. So you've got attacks per second, Crit Chance, the chance for a Crit to proc the CoC, and then your Accuracy. Assuming you're using ST, you'd be hitting an average mob pack 6-14 (~10) times, and a single-target lonesome Boss 2-3 times.

Which really comes down to, on average, with numbers pulled out of dark crevices between the cheeks of my Gluteus Maximus, to around 12 Spell Casts per Second from CoC.

Now depending on if you're using a Voll's, or a Tabula Rasa with PCoC, you could potentially be down 2-3 Supports. And then there's Cast Speed to take into consideration, which you can now spec into or gear for now that you're not going for as many CoC-related Passives. You can then be casting a Spell, let's say Fireball, about 2.8 times per second.

So those 2-3 Supports would really only need to make up for ~4.3x the damage of the Spell for it to match the DPS of CoC, vs an average mob Pack. Against a solo Boss, even without those 2-3 Supports, self-cast is doing more than CoC.

Now you're right that getting that much damage from only a few Supports isn't possible, but it's no where near as HUGE a difference in potential DPS output as you make it out to be..
What with Conc Effect (1.67x), Added Chaos Damage (adds nearly 70% of an avg lvl 20 Spell in Flat Damage), Faster Casting, Penetration, etc, the difference isn't that big.

And with self-cast you don't have to bother with the clunky, chain of non-crit/procs, that is a CoC build...

PS. You can't put more than one of the same Spell in CoC anymore, only 1 instance of it can trigger. It'd have to be a different Spell. I personally prefer Fireball+ArcticBreath+Conc for CoC, since both benefit from Conc it's effectively like adding another Spell.

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Sqwa wrote:

You picked blood magic, its not the way how casters should works out... taking blood magic on caster build should be exotic not common.

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Zerber wrote:

You actually proof the point that selfcasters are shit right now if a bloodmagic iron will marauder caster can outdps a normal caster that takes every elemental/spelldamage/crit not possible.

Its kinda absurd that a build that takes almost only life nodes does more spell dps than a witch or shadow for example that focuses on spell damage.

EDIT:

CoC is cancer and needs something like spell does x% less damage on the gem

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BackwoodsS wrote:

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Zerber wrote:

You actually proof the point that selfcasters are shit right now if a bloodmagic iron will marauder caster can outdps a normal caster that takes every elemental/spelldamage/crit not possible.

Its kinda absurd that a build that takes almost only life nodes does more spell dps than a witch or shadow for example that focuses on spell damage.

EDIT:

CoC is cancer and needs something like spell does x% less damage on the gem

You say self cast is garbage, i show you a build that can face tank shock and horror, you say it proves your point. If i wanted to go around in circles i would join nascar. Im done here.