Invasion League - Clearly not overtuned.

+1 Moose.

Its great that there are still some sane people on these boards. Particularly liked the bit about sometimes "challenging" an OP just to see what they will respond with. I think that is the best thing to do, and it is healthy. If I say X and everyone agrees we'll never know if X is the best it could be. As my old knife sharpening robot from the future used to say "you can't sharpen a knife without making sparks."

Today though, if you complain about something you're a QQ'er and if you defend something you're a white-knight.. these are the words people use who refuse to engage in discussion, who lack the ability or character to do so, and who prefer shortcuts to thinking - this is typically found in political and religious discourse.

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Today though, if you complain about something you're a QQ'er and if you defend something you're a white-knight.. these are the words people use who refuse to engage in discussion, who lack the ability or character to do so, and who prefer shortcuts to thinking - this is typically found in political and religious discourse.

I was looking for better words to express that, I only said "Also such accusation are pathetic, and Ad Hominem "attacks" means a lot in a palce where the main purpose is discussing/arguing lol :]]." which was quite poor I admit.

That was nicely put, thanks for that.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Extremists only recognise other extremists.

The pot calling the kettle black. ^^^^

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Fruz wrote:

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Wittgenstein wrote:

Today though, if you complain about something you're a QQ'er and if you defend something you're a white-knight.. these are the words people use who refuse to engage in discussion, who lack the ability or character to do so, and who prefer shortcuts to thinking - this is typically found in political and religious discourse.

I was looking for better words to express that, I only said "Also such accusation are pathetic, and Ad Hominem "attacks" means a lot in a palce where the main purpose is discussing/arguing lol :]]." which was quite poor I admit.

That was nicely put, thanks for that.

Ad hominem might be a fallacy and dismissing someone's opinion just on grounds of his lack of experience, strictly put, is wrong.

However, pure theory tends to be unreliable if not backed by experience, and that is particularly true for games. In this thread, an ad hominem argument might be fallacious, but it is reasonable. Presenting a solid purely theoretical argument without experience is not impossible, it's just highly unlikely. So, it is common sense to be sceptical about someone's theories if they are not backed by at least some experience.

That being said, who has what heroes in which league is a very poor way to judge the quality of their arguments, because heroes are deleted, profiles are changed, Invasion heroes have been known to die and so on. Not to mention that progression in this game is mostly a factor of time and any idiot with a lot of free time on their hands could copy/paste a FOTM build and progress far.

This thread is turning more and more from a good old "QQers vs. White Knights" troll fest into one big sophisticated mess of an off-topic and I enjoy it :D

A little more offtopic:

Three logicians enter a bar. The barman says, 'Are you all going to drink?'.
The first logician says, 'I don't know'. The second one says, 'I don't know'.
The third one says, 'Yes'.

A logician's wife is having a baby. They give the baby to the father and she asks, "So, is it a boy or a girl?'.
The logician says, 'Yes'.

I think the guy with the philosopher's nickname would appreciate these ones :P

Relying on ad hominem "argument" only is never reasonable.
I have not dismissed anything :).
I have never pretended to have met this boss at high level in invasion, because that was completely irrelevant on the points I was making/question I was asking.

This thread has kinda become useless since the boss had apparently been nerfed tbh, unless it's still overpowered, it's gone completely off-topic anyway.

It could still be useful to have informations on the new version I admit.

Some are still OP as hell, but they can't off screen you, so it's fair.

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Fruz wrote:

Relying on ad hominem "argument" only is never reasonable.

That part is true, but it gets tiresome to explain the same thing again and again, which is obvious to you since you've experienced it first-hand, to people who are just theorycrafting and have their head so high in the clouds that they are not seeing the ground.

To be fair, I'm writing this mostly in relation with other people's arguments from other threads.

And that is the problem with the thread - it is about a potentially rage-inducing subject, and people are mixing up this thread with others that are similar.

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reboticon wrote:

Some are still OP as hell, but they can't off screen you, so it's fair.

I think most people have no problem with OP as hell, they have a problem with OP as hell when combined with an instant kill.

There has to be more interesting ways of getting to the "you can't kill this boss, run" stage other than oneshots. For instance, why are there no invaders that can curse you with Cannot Create Portals?

Or even better, make it an Aura with a huge radius that prevents portals from being created within it, and destroys any that it touches. An alternative perhaps would be to give invaders an aura that make portals one way. You can leave, but you cant go back until the invader has moved somewhere else. If you REALLY want to spam refill your portals you're going to have to put in the effort of pulling the boss to a zone entrance.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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RogueMage wrote:

I've read dozens of posts from both Real_Wolf and Fruz and their views are not at all similar. In fact, I can say flat out that I nearly always agree with Real_Wolf's posts and disagree with Fruz's. What they do have in common, however, is that they're both articulate writers, but if that's what makes you suspect they're the same person, you're not picking up much beneath the surface.

Actually I find them saying the same stuff all the time as well. I don't know what thread you found where they don't both agree with something that makes no sense at all.

There's another guy Scrotie who is always saying stuff that doesn't make sense or follow logic/facts either, but Scrotie is less offensive when he makes shit up.

Laugh. Out. Loud.

On the topic, the Spikestorm attack the titty boss uses is overtuned. Not all of her, just that one attack (or at least primarily that one). It should be adjusted, not to do less damage, but to do damage at a slower rate (more time in between "drops") and/or better telegraphed.

I'll actually take that back since I agree with most of what you've said in this thread, and you do use some facts to support your arguments, irrelevant as they might have been in other threads. I'm definitely being a bit too harsh on you since unlike the other two, you do make some decent points.

While I can probably get along with you since you often make some sense, IDK how much money Fruz and real_wolf are getting paid to spam the forums with how the game's mechanics are already perfectly balanced. GGG must be paying them well.

Anyways onto the issue...

OHK mechanics are OK if they are telegraphed and avoidable, like with dominus and kole. That spike storm thing clearly just isn't as easily identified and avoided, and adding time between hits is the most important thing due to stunlocks.

The other issue with this boss though is that she has RT. I mean really what the fuck is that, how many bosses do we need bypassing evasion? We've already got an RT exile, an EK/bear trap exile, an EK/bear trap boss, and now we have an RT boss. This is getting ridiculous.

I also don't think they touched the totems boss at all, and he was way worse than any boss I've fought before, including the tittybitch boss.

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Xendran wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

Some are still OP as hell, but they can't off screen you, so it's fair.

I think most people have no problem with OP as hell, they have a problem with OP as hell when combined with an instant kill.

There has to be more interesting ways of getting to the "you can't kill this boss, run" stage other than oneshots. For instance, why are there no invaders that can curse you with Cannot Create Portals?

Or even better, make it an Aura with a huge radius that prevents portals from being created within it, and destroys any that it touches. An alternative perhaps would be to give invaders an aura that make portals one way. You can leave, but you cant go back until the invader has moved somewhere else. If you REALLY want to spam refill your portals you're going to have to put in the effort of pulling the boss to a zone entrance.

How about a boss that prevents logouts? That could be perfectly balanced and still generate enough QQ for Chris to enjoy, the sadistic bastard.