Why are people against Instanced Looting?

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anubite wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

When something really good drops there is nobody you can trust. This is the problem.

If you build a long-term relationship with someone, you can trust them with a really good drop.

Stop right there.

This isn't happening.

I'm not putting up with a thousand loot ninjas to find one or two people who are actually decent and I want to play with.

And, like was pointed out before, this defeats the purpose of FFA loot. If you're playing with people you trust, FFA loot really serves no purpose because it is no longer adding tension (which is the ONLY reason to have it in public games).

Personally, I don't even care if they don't go with instanced loot as long as they increase the bloody timer...

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Zyrusticae wrote:

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anubite wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

When something really good drops there is nobody you can trust. This is the problem.

If you build a long-term relationship with someone, you can trust them with a really good drop.

Stop right there.

This isn't happening.

I'm not putting up with a thousand loot ninjas to find one or two people who are actually decent and I want to play with.

And, like was pointed out before, this defeats the purpose of FFA loot. If you're playing with people you trust, FFA loot really serves no purpose because it is no longer adding tension (which is the ONLY reason to have it in public games).

Personally, I don't even care if they don't go with instanced loot as long as they increase the bloody timer...

FFA loot exists to keep the flow going and because, even among friends, you need a level playing field. The loot timer ONLY exists so ranged characters have a chance to reach items that have dropped. That's why it was implemented, not as a means to create some half-baked loot system. FFA loot exists so there is no down-time, items drop - you pick them up - you move on.

Clan/guild system = easy to find trustworthy people.

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anubite wrote:

We have had this discussion 1000 times already.

Play with people you trust.

Instanced loot is a terrible mechanic; you DO NOT trust other people to pick up valuable loot. Like this ring?

This ring would probably end up in a vendor's hands if it were the common player who picked it up. It adds physical damage, has a decent life and rarity -- but that's it. Most people would look this over. But for a facebreaker build, this is a great ring! Brilliant. This ring adds something like 150 dps to my build.

In an instanced loot setting, you may never see this drop. Hell, somebody might identify it and put it back on the ground. You'll never see it, because it's INSTANCED LOOT. In CB, I got a 5L that NOBODY in our six man group noticed. People can't be expected to know what's a good item for every build. The result is that instanced loot defeats the purpose of partying, you don't share items in a group as much, you don't communicate as a group. Instanced loot is a shitty mechanic that belongs in World of Warcarft, at best. It doesn't belong here.

Play with people you trust. Play with people you trust. Why would I steal from someone who's a good, fast party member who's going to net me more loot in the long run...? It's just going to get me kicked. This is the idea of trust. Find people you can trust.

The shortest road to fixing the loot system is to implementing clans/guilds. This makes finding trustworthy people easier.

FURTHERMORE instanced loot DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM AT HAND. All instanced loot does is say, "Hey, umm, GGG, I want to have items arbitrarily forbidden for me to pick up. I don't want to ever see my party members get certain items. I just want to be blindly given loot in a group and always have a 100% chance of being screwed over by RNG. I can't handle the responsibility of finding good party members or kicking bad ones. Please take away my freedom!" Instanced loot is a TOXIC mechanic you can't just "add it as an option" and expect anybody to run FFA groups anymore; people have the popular misconception that instanced loot is "fair" -- it's not. It's just stupid. It's not fair or judgmental, it's a retarded system. Far far worse than FFA (which isn't perfect, I admit, but it's better than instanced loot). Don't believe me? PEOPLE STILL spread the misconception that "evasion builds are bad" "evasion builds are luck/RNG" -- that's simply not the case at all yet people still spread these false ideas like they would instanced loot. You wouldn't be able to have a public group with FFA loot turned on, because everyone joining it would label you and demand you change the loot rules.

Why do you people not get this? NO ONE'S MAKING YOU PLAY INSTANCED LOOT. I'm asking for the option for people who doesn't care about petty things like this. RGN is RGN. You get lucky, you get good loot. You don't, well too bad.

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tinghshi wrote:

Why do you people not get this? NO ONE'S MAKING YOU PLAY INSTANCED LOOT. I'm asking for the option for people who doesn't care about petty things like this. RGN is RGN. You get lucky, you get good loot. You don't, well too bad.

There are 2 threads with 200+ and 350+ pages with this exact same perspective offered dozens of times each.

Why do we need a new thread for you to repeat the same exhausted argument?

Re-read your thread title. "Why are people against instanced looting?" If you don't want people to answer that, you shouldn't have asked.

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ampdecay wrote:

blah blah blah blah

If you say its for the social aspect then why couldn't you just skype, teamspeak, mumble, etc, with your friends while soloing the same zones together? It would be exactly the same thing as if you had instanced loot, only difference is the other person is on the screen, which is quite arbitrary at that point wouldnt you say?

most illogical post I've ever read. If having another person playing with you is ever arbitrary, you probably have never in your life played with another person.

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tinghshi wrote:

And why is that? Because GGG ignores every argument thrown at them without considering whether they make sense, and FFA supporters just tell us to accept and shut up. Is really is sad that it's the only counterargument they have, yet they're the ones getting what they want.

nah dude

First of all
Instanced loot is not FFA loot equally divided between number of ppl in game.
Instanced loot is an attempt to recreate FFA loot in terms of quality and quantity for each player in the game.
Which means it's just boosting up overall drop rates several times.
Which results in saturating market with gear that times faster, or even more since the faster you get good gear the faster you can get even better gear.

You can claim that devs don't have to increase drop rates so much with instanced loot but you're wrong here.
Nice post by

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Nicholas_Steel wrote:

Instanced Loot would likely greatly impact the variety & quantity of loot the player base will be playing with. Instead of getting 160% loot or whatever it is with 6 players you'd end up with 600% loot. On top of that you'll probably want each players Loot Quality and Loot Quantity stats to affect there individualized loot drops instead of it being determined by the player that dealt the killing blow. (Implementing Instanced Loot makes it a slippery slope towards the last thing I mentioned)

You have to increase drop rates to provide ppl with so called 'loot pinata' or whatever you call it.
Basically if you kill big bad mob there must be shitloads of stuff dropping.
It's pretty fundamental 'law' in arpgs. Even Jay Wilson knew that

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One other important change is that common (white) items will no longer be salvageable. We found that it caused a few itemization issues, but mostly this is due to a general philosophy shift on the importance of items. Previously, our thinking was that when an item dropped it should always be useful to you in some way, either the stats could be an improvement for you, or in the case of white items you could break it down and craft something better. Through a lot of play testing we have come full circle to the Diablo II methodology -- a lot of stuff that drops just isn’t worth picking up. Diablo II captured the loot piñata feel by dropping a lot of crap, mostly arrows and bolts, and we of course still very much want that feeling of item-explosions. To do that we need to be able to balance the value of items to how many we’re throwing at you.

from http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/blog/3599257/Systems_Changes_—_Jay_Wilson_-19_01_2012

The only difference in PoE is that white items are not just a decoration here.
They are viable loot. And it's making that loot pinatas even worse in this case.

There is not other way, instanced loot = more everything dropping. Several times more.
Which in the end results in reducing game 'lifetime' (ladder/league season) by several times.
If you've played D2 you should know how this scenario looks like.
Magnify that by five or six and you get how direct implementing instanced loot without other HUGE changes to item system would end.

Devs can try to postpone that, extend ladder/league season lifetime by:
- watering down item system, adding more item and affix tiers especially in the end game (see D3)
- constantly adding new content along with better high end gear to keep ppl occupied
- messing up with game content (changing mods adding new ones changing their effectiveness up or down), messing up with item sinks and so on. All in the course of the running league/ladder season. (see D3 again).

There's pretty much nothing more besides that.
1 and 3 suck 2 is out of question even for blizzard.

D3 has one more issue which is RMAH, they can't make new ladder/league season (well there's no ladder at all) erase everything and make everyone start from the scratch or go to the legacy league/ladder.
That's why D3 item system and progression curve is fucked up beyond any repair.
Fortunately we don't have this shit in PoE, still as a dev you don't want to make ppl start over every 2 or 3 months.

That's the most important bad thing about instanced loot

There are more good things about FFA
There are plenty good things about IL
Still this one makes IL out of question.

btw. I'm playing ranged char, pretty weak def and I don't have any problem picking up 'my' stuff in time.
What's more funny the further item drops from my char the more time I have to pick it up (running to the spot included). I can quickly judge if it's worth taking which is kinda impossible when loot drops close to me with 0.5 sec timer.
It took a while to get used to that though.
Overall it's as fair as FFA could be.
A few fixes and I will be content with that.

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ness wrote:

How does this make any sense? No, Instanced loot would not increase the total amount of items in the market if the devs can balance it out. Instanced loot is the same amount of loot as FFA, except its split between the players. Now imagine all those people play the same maps but soloed, wouldn't that do exact same thing? Your taking an unlikely extreme and putting it out a a given, which is just unreasonable.

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Panda413 wrote:

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tinghshi wrote:

Why do you people not get this? NO ONE'S MAKING YOU PLAY INSTANCED LOOT. I'm asking for the option for people who doesn't care about petty things like this. RGN is RGN. You get lucky, you get good loot. You don't, well too bad.

There are 2 threads with 200+ and 350+ pages with this exact same perspective offered dozens of times each.

Why do we need a new thread for you to repeat the same exhausted argument?

Re-read your thread title. "Why are people against instanced looting?" If you don't want people to answer that, you shouldn't have asked.

Except this never answered the question. I'm not sure if you just don't know how to read or are just ignorant to do so.

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ness wrote:

First of all
Instanced loot is not FFA loot equally divided between number of ppl in game.
Instanced loot is an attempt to recreate FFA loot in terms of quality and quantity for each player in the game.
Which means it's just boosting up overall drop rates several times.
Which results in saturating market with gear that times faster, or even more since the faster you get good gear the faster you can get even better gear.

No reason to read the rest of your post since you proved right there at the beginning you have no idea what you are talking about. Instanced loot would use the same amount of loot that you would see in an FFA game. The easiest system to implement would be taking the current drops that get timers on them and simply allocate them to the player (essentially make the timer infinite) and the problem is solved. This does not create additional loot, it creates a cooperative grouping environment.

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Ixsiehn wrote:

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ampdecay wrote:

blah blah blah blah

If you say its for the social aspect then why couldn't you just skype, teamspeak, mumble, etc, with your friends while soloing the same zones together? It would be exactly the same thing as if you had instanced loot, only difference is the other person is on the screen, which is quite arbitrary at that point wouldnt you say?

most illogical post I've ever read. If having another person playing with you is ever arbitrary, you probably have never in your life played with another person.

You obviously have no idea what I meant...

Having instanced loot is the same as two people playing the same zone solo. In each case both players get 100% of the loot dropped. Therefore with instanced loot partying becomes arbitrary.


Blah blah blah, if you're good enough you can level faster solo than in a party, except for end game maps, and that is only specifically because map drops are rare so you end up doing more maps if a group pools all their maps together versus running maps solo.

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ampdecay wrote:

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Ixsiehn wrote:

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ampdecay wrote:

blah blah blah blah

If you say its for the social aspect then why couldn't you just skype, teamspeak, mumble, etc, with your friends while soloing the same zones together? It would be exactly the same thing as if you had instanced loot, only difference is the other person is on the screen, which is quite arbitrary at that point wouldnt you say?

most illogical post I've ever read. If having another person playing with you is ever arbitrary, you probably have never in your life played with another person.

You obviously have no idea what I meant...

Having instanced loot is the same as two people playing the same zone solo. In each case both players get 100% of the loot dropped. Therefore with instanced loot partying becomes arbitrary.


Blah blah blah, if you're good enough you can level faster solo than in a party, except for end game maps, and that is only specifically because map drops are rare so you end up doing more maps if a group pools all their maps together versus running maps solo.

Did you even think before you typed this? In a party, the group work together to fight the monsters. That's the whole reason why parties exist in the first place, not to kill each other for loots.