GGG should probably address the player retention rate

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allbusiness wrote:

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anubite wrote:

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evilcloud5 wrote:

Fan boys at their best^^. This game isn't that good TBH, and there are many problems that put people off right at the start. Has nothing to do with today's gaming population.

I might be a fan, but I'm not blind to the many problems this game has. I report - I've reported on them all the time. And even after all this time, many are still not fixed or even seemingly in the process of being fixed.

But PoE still stands head and shoudlers above most games today - if you doubt this statement, please bring out some titles or a meatier explanation for us to discuss. Anyway, this sad fact should be enough to suggest that the problem does stem from today's gaming population.

Today's gaming population is coddled, at best, inexperienced, impatient, myopic, dispassioned, and unskilled at worst.

Path of Exile is heads and shoulders above games within its own specific genre, and that's mainly because the competition is absolutely garbage.


When you start comparing Path of Exile to other games, no, it doesn't stand heads and shoulders above everything else. Completely false.

Once again, no titles are stated; no meat to this statement. I really don't appreciate people who think they can make arbitrary claims and sit on some throne. Bring some fact or statements to the table. We can all be children and say that, "I'm right and you're wrong," all fucking day; there's no point in arguing unless you actually name names. I can back up why PoE stands above every game that came out in 2013, 2012, or 2011, with ease.

You can be critical of PoE all you want, but you can't name another F2P game that does it better than this. You also can't name another game quite like this in the industry just yet. Or at least, please let me know so I can start playing this game. It can be of any genre except sports or racing (I don't care for those).

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anubite wrote:

You can be critical of PoE all you want, but you can't name another F2P game that does it better than this. You also can't name another game quite like this in the industry just yet. Or at least, please let me know so I can start playing this game. It can be of any genre except sports or racing (I don't care for those).

f2p? world of tanks and lol would like to have a word with you. all being far bigger and sustainable. none of them having desync issues as big as poe. you dont have to like them. just like WOT or LOL players dont like POE.

non-f2p? i think you just made a fool out of yourself claiming that this is the best thing that happened in gaming industry since 2011.. sorry to be blunt but fanaticism is not something that should not go unnoticed

it is the best f2p arpg on the market now. 1st from the pool of ONE game. and it has nothing to do with topic on hand so please dont bring your personal rankings here

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sidtherat wrote:

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anubite wrote:

You can be critical of PoE all you want, but you can't name another F2P game that does it better than this. You also can't name another game quite like this in the industry just yet. Or at least, please let me know so I can start playing this game. It can be of any genre except sports or racing (I don't care for those).

f2p? world of tanks and lol would like to have a word with you. all being far bigger and sustainable. none of them having desync issues as big as poe. you dont have to like them. just like WOT or LOL players dont like POE.

non-f2p? i think you just made a fool out of yourself claiming that this is the best thing that happened in gaming industry since 2011.. sorry to be blunt but fanaticism is not something that should not go unnoticed

it is the best f2p arpg on the market now. 1st from the pool of ONE game. and it has nothing to do with topic on hand so please dont bring your personal rankings here

Completely with sidtherat on this, dota 2 as f2p, last of us, witcher 2 and these are just off the top of my head. Also, this f2p excuse needs to stop, it's their job to develop this game, they get paid for it whether you like it or not, they're not doing it out of charity. And please don't go down the available funds route saying well they didn't have money for this or that because that's just admitting the game has major flaws.

Now don't get me wrong I love PoE, and I'm sure alot of the people complaining about it also do, otherwise they would just have stopped playing without looking back. But just because you really like something doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye on all it's flaws.

just saying..

I would actually say RMT is a significant problem for 2 reasons. 1, being f2p allows for unlimited bots.

2, unlimited bots allows for cheaper prices. Thus, it's appeal to RMT is better for those players who maybe wouldn't have if orbs were more expensive.

I still think RMT should result in automatic bans.

There are probably tons of people that joined the adventure post-release that are not completely suited to this game.

I mean, I prefer seeing lots of new player leave than GGG changing the game to something that would attract as many people as possible honestly.
The game has not started 2 monthes ago, there had been plenty of people playing it, that keep doing so.

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anubite wrote:

Once again, no titles are stated; no meat to this statement. I really don't appreciate people who think they can make arbitrary claims and sit on some throne. Bring some fact or statements to the table. We can all be children and say that, "I'm right and you're wrong," all fucking day; there's no point in arguing unless you actually name names. I can back up why PoE stands above every game that came out in 2013, 2012, or 2011, with ease.

You can be critical of PoE all you want, but you can't name another F2P game that does it better than this. You also can't name another game quite like this in the industry just yet. Or at least, please let me know so I can start playing this game. It can be of any genre except sports or racing (I don't care for those).

If we're strictly talking F2P...


Lineage 2 - A much more hardcore RPG than Path of Exile by every stretch of the imagination despite atrocious netcode, it's still actually better than Path of Exile's. That's saying alot too considering Lineage 2 is an ancient game, almost as old as Diablo 2. The game gives no fucks about certain things, and is not even casual in the slightest. It's even more ultimate grindy/hardcore than Path of Exile. So if you really want a hardcore game, play L2 (especially since if you PK like a huge nerd you will pop like a pinata if you are too red). It's an excellent grind simulator, trade to progress simulator, or hardcore PVP with real consequences.

League of Legends - It may not be hardcore, but it certainly has a very good reputation for well executed concepts, and is wildly popular amongst the general population. And before you say League of Legends is a scrub game, some of the most successful DotA pros (ice3x, hyhy) have not been able to make a transition into League of Legends because it isn't as easy as you think.

DotA 2 - A much more hardcore/less forgiving version of League of Legends. Better than Path of Exile in alot of game design choices, mostly because the developer (IceFrog) understands that sacrificing entertainment/fun for the masses for the sake of a 'vision' is a completely stupid theory.

Planetside 2 - Very complex and very fun MMO shooter. Tactical, and reliant on good play with teammates. Zerging is an issue, but good teamwork can overcome Zerging 99% of the time.

World of Tanks - Haven't played it, but wildly popular and has a competitive scene in Korea.

Runescape - They must be doing something right if they retain and have more players than Path of Exile. Trololololololol. In all reality, Runescape is actually a legitimately decent game, especially considering the number of options and paths you have to take in said game. Recently it has been getting worse on P2Win features, but it's still decent enough to play through for a few weeks.

Tribes Ascend - Excellent remake, a few tweaks to the Tribes formula I don't agree with, but very much a strong contender in the F2P shooter category. Hard to learn for a new player, but very hardcore like Planetside 2 in terms of the skills and knowledge that you need to pick up to be successful.

Team Fortress 2 - Excellent formula, well executed, easy to learn, hard to master.

Quake Live - Classic Q3 Arena, considered the best 1v1 deathmatch game in the history of FPS games.

Tera Online - A slightly more casual version of L2, but still very fun and hilariously good PvP due to the combat system.



These are strictly F2P games. Yes a few of them have some P2W options, but most do not really affect you directly (except Planetside 2 and Tribes Ascend, but really the default weapons are better in most cases).


Here's what I don't appreciate. When Path of Exile whiteknights like you try to go out there and make Path of Exile look like the best F2P game by a country mile. It's not. It is not even close to the best game there is. You make Path of Exile like it is some revolutionary game in the F2P market. Sure, it's really good for a F2P game. I put it in my top 20 list, but it certainly isn't topping games like DotA 2, League of Legends, Tribes, Planetside 2, etc. anytime soon.


BTW, the list extends significantly if we're talking about P2P games. You made a fucking bold claim saying that Path of Exile is better than 99% of the games out there on the market, whether they are F2P or P2P. You can't just say shit like that and expect to get away with it.


And just to reiterate, here's exactly what you said

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anubite wrote:

I might be a fan, but I'm not blind to the many problems this game has. I report - I've reported on them all the time. And even after all this time, many are still not fixed or even seemingly in the process of being fixed.

But PoE still stands head and shoudlers above most games today - if you doubt this statement, please bring out some titles or a meatier explanation for us to discuss. Anyway, this sad fact should be enough to suggest that the problem does stem from today's gaming population.


There's nothing wrong with the base game of PoE that should turn players away. It's everything you could expect from a game offering you a challenge. It could have more in-game information on stuff and lots of things can still be polished or improved, but the overwhelming fact is a majority of gamers today just play minecraft or Battlefield. If PoE doesn't fall under a similar genre or appeal, players don't have the patience or the skills to handle it.

Most condescending flame bait bullshit I've read in along time, and that's alot considering I've read shit from Slayers, Fruhz, and other POE defenders who repeatedly try to flame bait anyone who criticizes Path of Exile. So you're saying that Path of Exile is so good of a game, no one should turn it down, and that if you turn it down you're just some person that doesn't like hardcore games? That's a huge generalization and a huge fucking insult, especially considering some of us who criticize Path of Exile are more hardcore gamers than you ever will be.


And before you go ad homenining me into the ground about how I'm not a 'hardcore' or 'competitive' gamer, let me give you a short competitive background of myself.

Competitive Q3 player, played in multiple CPLs vs Zero4, Lexar from Russia, Fatality, etc.

Competitive CS player, played on GameWyze with F4nG, Mason, Warden, etc.

Considered one of the top duelists (1v1) in Lineage 2, had top end gear when I was playing from Prelude to Chronicle 4. So yes, this means that I have grinded more gear/exp than you ever have. Anyone that has played L2 can attest to that.

Currently 5k MMR in DotA 2, similar MMR to various North American pros in DotA 2.


I don't mean to post my e-penis resume, but the shit you just posted ticked alot of people off that I would consider 'hardcore' gamers, but certainly do not like certain aspects of Path of Exile.

I tried dota2. While I do understand why it's popular, and I did see why it could be fun. Some of the controls I found wonky, and the thought of 45 min or hour long matches was just something that prevented me from playing.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I would actually say RMT is a significant problem for 2 reasons. 1, being f2p allows for unlimited bots.

2, unlimited bots allows for cheaper prices. Thus, it's appeal to RMT is better for those players who maybe wouldn't have if orbs were more expensive.

I still think RMT should result in automatic bans.

unlimited bot will NOT allows for cheaper prices, there was a reason why lioneye's glare was once 25 - 30 exalted and kaom's heart was once 50 +. then after 1.5 months of Open Beta, lioneye dropped off to 5 - 10, and kaom's heart dropped to 30 - 40 after GGG re-enforced their no-bots policy. because exalts became harder to come by on the market without massive botting. high-end gears used to be literally only affordable if u RMT'ed.

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abcnever wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

I would actually say RMT is a significant problem for 2 reasons. 1, being f2p allows for unlimited bots.

2, unlimited bots allows for cheaper prices. Thus, it's appeal to RMT is better for those players who maybe wouldn't have if orbs were more expensive.

I still think RMT should result in automatic bans.

unlimited bot will NOT allows for cheaper prices, there was a reason why lioneye's glare was once 25 - 30 exalted and kaom's heart was once 50 +. then after 1.5 months of Open Beta, lioneye dropped off to 5 - 10, and kaom's heart dropped to 30 - 40 after GGG re-enforced their no-bots policy. because exalts became harder to come by on the market without massive botting. high-end gears used to be literally only affordable if u RMT'ed.

+1.

Bots aren't sitting there farming maps, since the cost-benefit is clearly not there. Bots are probably sitting there farming ledge, or other areas like such, with a decent amount of IIR/IIQ and vendoring the loot. They might have a few 'real player' (e.g. high level mappers) connections that help them launder money by trading in the lesser currency they found for exalts, often at hugely discounted prices. Bots are not going to sit there and spam trade.

The problem is that the game essentially makes it more profitable to run lower, easy content repeatedly with decent IIR/IIQ than it is to do more difficult, potentially RIP content, which absolutely can be attributed to a flaw in game design.

Mods please close and ban appropriate posters, to much circle jerk.