You guys know rampant RMT abuse comes from a shit economy, right?

"

Teridax wrote:

Blaming excessive RMT for our shitty economy is Soviet Russian logic... Its completely backwards

Stop blaming Chinese farmers and blame bad game design. Every other online game has an economy without the level of RMT in PoE.

RMT is especially huge in PoE compared to other trading games because our economy sucks dick so players give up and RMT to progress.

Lol, RMT actually exist only in successful games, and PoE being Game Of The Year (GameSpot version), obviously will beaffected by RMT.

Your claim are pointless. Human's nature is one to blame for RMT. As long as game allows economy, and game is successful, there will be players who will want to get game good for real money.

RMT is impossible only in games without economy (single-player games, foe example).

Underground market comes with any successful economy. You don't need a BBA to realize that.

"

MortalKombat3 wrote:

"

Teridax wrote:

Blaming excessive RMT for our shitty economy is Soviet Russian logic... Its completely backwards

Stop blaming Chinese farmers and blame bad game design. Every other online game has an economy without the level of RMT in PoE.

RMT is especially huge in PoE compared to other trading games because our economy sucks dick so players give up and RMT to progress.

Lol, RMT actually exist only in successful games, and PoE being Game Of The Year (GameSpot version), obviously will beaffected by RMT.

Your claim are pointless. Human's nature is one to blame for RMT. As long as game allows economy, and game is successful, there will be players who will want to get game good for real money.

RMT is impossible only in games without economy (single-player games, foe example).

It's not about completely eliminating RMT, which would be impossible. It's about limiting dependence on it.

Let's say I look back at my last 30 hours worth of map runs, and found 0 items that I could sell for more than a Chaos, which is often the case for me in Nemesis right now. Now I have the option of paying GGG for expensive cosmetics and still having nothing to show for my time, or using that same money to get gear/experience some crafting/roll good maps then the choice becomes easy for a lot of people.

If you have players that get to a point in a game where they aren't having fun, but the potential to have fun playing lies at the end of a blood soaked dollar, the RMT sites thrive. The majority of RMT is eliminated when a player-base feels fulfilled and compensated for the amount of time they put in, which is a feeling very few everyday players have playing this game right now.

the less stuff is accessible in an reasonable time frame , the more people will RMT to save time ...

always been like that !

its probably worse in PoE due to the nature of crating which is mostly random and very punishing on fail

"

nGio wrote:

It's not about completely eliminating RMT, which would be impossible. It's about limiting dependence on it.

Let's say I look back at my last 30 hours worth of map runs, and found 0 items that I could sell for more than a Chaos, which is often the case for me in Nemesis right now. Now I have the option of paying GGG for expensive cosmetics and still having nothing to show for my time, or using that same money to get gear/experience some crafting/roll good maps then the choice becomes easy for a lot of people.

If you have players that get to a point in a game where they aren't having fun, but the potential to have fun playing lies at the end of a blood soaked dollar, the RMT sites thrive. The majority of RMT is eliminated when a player-base feels fulfilled and compensated for the amount of time they put in, which is a feeling very few everyday players have playing this game right now.

Ok, farming lots of time isnt fun. It makes game boring and players start to quit.
But gaining BiS gear over short period of time isnt fun either. It makes game boring and players start to quit.

So, you propose to change one boredom for another?

And, BTW, if you are gaining NO items worth more than chaos over 30 hours, perhaps, it's time to stop farming white level 66 maps with ZERO IR/IQ? Though, even i that case, i dont believe that you wont gain at least one unique or rare, worth several chaos.

RMT is a disease infecting the human soul.

It will NEVER go away. As long as there are people that want to be better at a specific game and have the money to do so without a care, there will be a Chinese seller on the opposite side of the planet willing to take advantage.

I guess WoW had a shitty economy.
I guess D2 had a shitty economy.
I guess D3 had a shitty economy.
I guess Guildwars 2 had a shitty economy.
I guess LoL had a shitty economy.
I guess Final Fantasy had a shitty economy.
I guess Lineage 2 had a shitty economy.
I guess Neverwinter had a shitty economy.
I guess SWTOR had a shitty economy.
I guess EVE online had a shitty economy.
I guess Ragnarok had a shitty economy.

Just named a few big name games that all have tons and tons of RMT.

BTW here a small list of games that most those RMT websites support. I guess all these games must had shitty economies:

2Moons Dil
4Story Gold
9Dragons Gold
Age of Conan Gold (EU)
Age of Conan Gold (US)
Age Of Empires Online Coins
Age of Wushu Liang
Aion Kinah (EU)
Aion Kinah (US)
All Points Bulletin Cash (EU)
All Points Bulletin Cash (US)
Allods Online
Anarchy Online Credits
Angels Online Gold
Archlord Gold
Atlantica Online Gold
Bounty Bay Online Gold
Cabal Online Alz
Champions Online Resources
City of Heroes Influence
City of Villains Infamy
DAoC Platinum
Darkfall Online Gold (EU)
Darkfall Online Gold (US)
DCUO Gold
DDO Platinum
Defiance Scrip
Diablo 3 Gold
Dofus Kamas
Dragon Nest Gold
Dragonica Gold (EU)
Dragonica Gold (SEA)
Dream of Mirror Online Gold
Dungeon Fighter Online Gold
Eden Eternal Gold
Elder Scrolls Online Gold
EVE Online ISK
Everquest Platinum
Everquest 2 Platinum
EverQuest Next Platinum
Fiesta Online Silver
Fifa 13 Coins
Fifa 14 Coins
Final Fantasy XI Gil
Final Fantasy XIV Gil
Florensia Gold
Flyff Penya
Forsaken World Diamond (MY/SG)
Free Realms Gold
Gaia Gold
Guild Wars Gold
Guild Wars 2 Gold
Guild Wars 2 Gold (EU)
Hellgate London Palladium
Hero-Online Gold
Holic Online Gold
IMVU Credits
Iris Online Mil
KAL Online Geon
King of Kings 3 Gold
Knight Online Noah
Last Chaos Gold
Lineage 1 Adena
Lineage 2 Adena
Loong Gold
LotRO Gold
Mabinogi Gold
Magic World Online
Maple Story Mesos
Metin2 Yang
Mu Online Zen
Mythos Gold
Neo Steam Gold
Neverwinter Gold
Pandora Saga Gold
Perfect World Gold
Phantasy Star Meseta
Pirates of the Burning Sea Gold Doubloon
Priston Tale 2 Eons
Prius Online Gold
Ragnarok Online Zeny
Ragnarok Online 2 Zeny
Raiderz Gold
Rappelz Rupees
Red Cliff Jade (MY)
Requiem Online Lant
RF Online CP
Rift Platinum (EU)
Rift Platinum (US)
Rohan Online Crone
Rose Online Zuly
RS3
Runes of Magic Gold
Runescape Gold
RuneScape Classic Gold
Rusty Hearts Gold
Scarlet Legacy Gold
Scions of Fate Gold
Seal Online Cegel
Second Life Linden
Shaiya Gold
SilkRoad online Gold
Star Trek Online Credits (EU)
Star Trek Online Credits (US)
Sword of the New World Vis
SWTOR Credits (Asia Pacific)
SWTOR Credits (EU)
SWTOR Credits (US)
Tales of Pirates Gold
Tera Gold (US)
Tera Online Gold (EU)
The Secret World Pax Romana
Tibia Gold
Twelve Sky Silver
Twelve Sky 2 Silver Coins (US)
Ultima Online Gold
Vanguard Gold
Vindictus Gold (US)
Wakfu Kamas
Warhammer Online Gold (EU)
Warhammer Online Gold (US)
With Your Destiny Gold
Wonderland Online Gold
World of Kung Fu Gold
WoW Gold (EU)
WoW Gold (US)





Truth is, RMT will never go away as long as THERE ARE PLAYERS WILLING TO PAY FOR AN INGAME ADVANTAGE.

Even if there are is NO "currency" sellers will STILL sell items for example, OR leveling jobs ETC ETC ETC.

"

Listen, this is all you need to know: the economy is not a supernatural all-knowing entity. The economy is just an idea, made up by people, thousands of years ago. The economy is not real. And yet, it is real. Do not be afraid! This is only virtual goods. It's just something made up by people. Truly meaningless until we put our faith in it. Faith is what makes an economy exist. Without faith, it is only plastic cards, paper money and virtual pixels.

there is a difference between having rmt in a game , and having an invasive rmt presence in a game.

all those games might of had rmt , but it wasn't nearly as impactful as it is here

poes economy is shit, and yes it is shittier than all of the games listed added together , multiplied by ten.

why? because GGG made the colossally bad decision to add orbs in the game without crafting recipes.


exalted and eternal are going up in price because the only real way to get the fuckers is to trade ALOT. and when you have to trade to get something , that makes it a sellers market, and when its a sellers market , the seller can manipulate said market to suit his /hers or its whims.

exaltes are 36 chaos , because no one needs chaos - gcp , chaos can be farmed, people do not need to rely on trading to get some chaos action. Thus it is hugely important for rmt sites to destroy the value of chaos orbs so that people have to use more of them on the shit they have monopolies on.

like you know... EXALTED ORBS

poe is like the a country with 10 different national currencies each of which has very different economic backings, of course its going to be aq clusterfuck of legendary proportions.

there is a reason why people invented standard currencies: specifically to avoid currency manipulation on this scale.

Unfortunately Saltychipmunk (awesome name btw lol) has it right. There are inordinate flaws to the currency system and in the way it ties into character progression especially given how random it is, it really is a nightmare in that regard. So with such large flaws in both scale and number this just gives RMT more opportunities to utilize these vast and various flaws in the game's economy and character progression to their advantage, and the RMT are having a field day.

"

Saltychipmunk wrote:

there is a difference between having rmt in a game , and having an invasive rmt presence in a game.

all those games might of had rmt , but it wasn't nearly as impactful as it is here

poes economy is shit, and yes it is shittier than all of the games listed added together , multiplied by ten.

why? because GGG made the colossally bad decision to add orbs in the game without crafting recipes.


exalted and eternal are going up in price because the only real way to get the fuckers is to trade ALOT. and when you have to trade to get something , that makes it a sellers market, and when its a sellers market , the seller can manipulate said market to suit his /hers or its whims.

exaltes are 36 chaos , because no one needs chaos - gcp , chaos can be farmed, people do not need to rely on trading to get some chaos action. Thus it is hugely important for rmt sites to destroy the value of chaos orbs so that people have to use more of them on the shit they have monopolies on.

like you know... EXALTED ORBS

poe is like the a country with 10 different national currencies each of which has very different economic backings, of course its going to be aq clusterfuck of legendary proportions.

there is a reason why people invented standard currencies: specifically to avoid currency manipulation on this scale.

actually. Exalted and Eternals are going up in price because the league has hit a very specific point. Most the long term players are already high level and have fairly decent gear.

For them there is only 1 thing to do now. Try ans craft better gear. And the only way to be sure you can craft something godly, is to Eternal -> Exalt method.

Hence the stupid high demand for those 2 orbs. Also not to mention the other orbs, go down in value, because they have recipes, that is a normal thing.

As most players hit high level maps, most players have access to chaos recipe. Thus making chaos orb flood the economy. But chaos orbs are still very much needed for rolling maps. (not many other uses at this point).

So it costs more to buy an exalt (36 chaos) but there are alot more chaos entering the economy every second, and its much easier for the avarage player to make chaos recipes. So its relative. Ex / Et cost more chaos, but its easier to come across chaos if you know what to do.

Also if there is more RMT, that shows the playerbase is more willing to spend money, not that the economy is shitty. Only a COMPLETE MORON would spend MORE money in a game with a shitty economy.... Why the hell would ANYONE invest $$ if they think the economy is shitty... come on...