Why is GGG caving in to casuals' demands?

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This is the most idiotic thing I've ever read on the PoE forums, with the exception of the guy who thought the orb angels were sex demons.

1.) I've seen plenty of people die in parties, even with geared players.
1a) name any other online game where this never happens?

THATS RIGHT. THERE ISNT ONE.


2.)oh, okay. well you can go back to the RPGS you play where there is absolutely 0 trading.

oh right. the good ones all have it. next point.

3.)hahahahaha, okay that's so funny. I didnt realize that EVERYONE who plays PoE is the same as 3 streamers you watch daily.

Seriously, this is as hardcore a troll post as you can get.

how is he idiotic ?
he is right on every point , way to put your head in the sand and make fun of him because he is speaking the truth.

the only reason people party is because they are pussies mostly and need to aurastack synergize to beat maps then these very same people make fun of those who are making it hard on themselves by not grping for many reasons (not wanting to share loot , playing at their own space)

what is hard about a map if youve every aura in a good grp and freezemines / status effects dmg soakers dmg dealers supporters ?
what is HARD ABOUT IT ? thats right nothing , thus the guy you quoted is right.

2nd point , trading doesn´t make a game good and is indeed the most casual way of getting your character upgraded - once again many decide not to trade even if they could and are sitting on multiple exalts because trading takes away a lot of their own fun which is actually upgrading a character by yourself for yourself.

3rd point , he is making fun of hardcore players because thats what they basically do and they dont have to be streamers , ripped "hardcore" players land in standart all the time and they try to make big money by selling some nemesis only gear for example.

to sum it all up , PoE is not hardcore its a casual grindfest any 13 year old can play and is playing as we can see on global-3 chats on a daily basis

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syrioforel wrote:

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ConanTheGamebarian wrote:

Seriously, this is as hardcore a troll post as you can get.

Path of Exile: where even the troll posts are hardcore.

I lol'd. Nice one Syrio ;p.

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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reboticon wrote:

I don't think was his argument at all. I think he is talking about how much more efficient it is to trade than to grind, since he is known for solo grinding.

My main beef, is how content (that could be challenging) and crafting (that could be fun) is pretty much hard gated behind trading.

I don't have anything against trading as such, it's not something I care for, but I know some people do. But the extremes that GGG went to, with content and crafting gating, is absurd, it's a big middle finger to the aRPG loot finder.

I just find it amazing that anyone (lots of examples ITT) who just buys their items for every slot, with perfectly suited stats, has the nerve to comment on casualising this game, when their actions and those of GGG (which they don't even see) casualise the game, the content, the challenges, everything to a degree that in contrast makes their claims microscopic.

While I agree that the game is very heavily based and balanced around trading, I'm not sure how this makes the game casual. That perfect gear cannot be bought from anyone, and it cannot be bought easily. It takes tons of time to acquire those items and tons of time invested (unfortunately) into trading to make the currency (for the legit players).

In fact, getting the perfect gear in this game takes massively more time and grinding than any game I've played before, to the point of absurdity, in my opinion. You can't "just buy" gear for every slot with perfect stats.

There isn't anything casual about a game where you can play 5 hours a day for several months and still not be able to obtain a unique weapon you want. If anything that is *too* hardcore. The issue you have seems to be that you feel the "hardcoreness" in the game is misplaced. It shouldn't be a hardcore trading game, it should be a hardcore dungeon crawling RPG.

I happen to agree there, I think the game would be better. But then again, I don't like MMOs or those type of online games, so many people disagree, including GGG clearly. I play solo, I don't like the party shit and I certainly don't like the trading and the way that it creates so much RMT. But I trade because that is the way it is in PoE.

I simply think that it is a matter of genre, and of the definition of "casual".. This is the type of game GGG wanted to make, and simply because it doesn't conform to other game's or genre's standards or norms, doesn't make it casual. It's just a different type of game. We have different definitions of "casual". I personally don't think the trading aspect of the game makes it casual.

Edit: This has come up before too, I'm sure you've seen it as well plenty of times. This whole idea of "hardcore" games and what that means. I think that's really all this boils down to, our personal definitions.

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Kechop wrote:

how is he idiotic ?
he is right on every point , way to put your head in the sand and make fun of him because he is speaking the truth.

the only reason people party is because they are pussies mostly and need to aurastack synergize to beat maps then these very same people make fun of those who are making it hard on themselves by not grping for many reasons (not wanting to share loot , playing at their own space)

what is hard about a map if youve every aura in a good grp and freezemines / status effects dmg soakers dmg dealers supporters ?
what is HARD ABOUT IT ? thats right nothing , thus the guy you quoted is right.

2nd point , trading doesn´t make a game good and is indeed the most casual way of getting your character upgraded - once again many decide not to trade even if they could and are sitting on multiple exalts because trading takes away a lot of their own fun which is actually upgrading a character by yourself for yourself.

3rd point , he is making fun of hardcore players because thats what they basically do and they dont have to be streamers , ripped "hardcore" players land in standart all the time and they try to make big money by selling some nemesis only gear for example.

to sum it all up , PoE is not hardcore its a casual grindfest any 13 year old can play and is playing as we can see on global-3 chats on a daily basis

How is he idiotic? Well gee there kiddo I don't know, maybe you can read my refuations and see that his points are asinine.

HE isn't speaking the truth for everyone. Obviously you don't either, because I know a number of people who had different experiences end game mapping.

Also, if it's a challenge you want, then keep rolling maps till you can't handle it. Stop having other people carry you in maps, solo them, on a character that you NEVER TRADED ON. I mean like, holy crap. Do you want GGG to come into your game and tell everyone how to play?

Seriously, just go back to Blizzard, they enjoy that kind of thinking there.

"the only reason people party is because they are pussies"

Lol I can't believe you're serious. Obv troll post.

"trading doesn´t make a game good"

Name all the games trading has ruined for you. I guarantee it's less than two real titles.

"and is indeed the most casual way of getting your character upgraded"
Trading is OPTIONAL. end of story.

Unless Chris is in your room with a gun to your head telling you he'll pull the hairpin if you don't trade to get better items, you're kinda full of something. OP TION AL.

"PoE is not hardcore its a casual grindfest any 13 year old can play"
Okay, are you saying that out of personal experience?

If you want something that is "hardcore" don't trade, don't group with anyone, and don't look up your freaking builds.

AND YES IT IS FUCKING HARDCORE.

Or go play asian mmos that will make you think you're badass because in your silly little world they are perceived to be harder, even though the problem is with your metrics, not the game itself.

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Kechop wrote:

the only reason people party is because they are pussies

I take that all back.

you have one level 81 marauder in standard, your next highest character is a level 11 scion named spectraldeepthroat, and I doubt you had any good items on your own, much less even a 5l.

And you're COMPLAINING THE GAME IS TOO EASY.

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ConanTheGamebarian wrote:

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Kechop wrote:

the only reason people party is because they are pussies

I take that all back.

you have one level 81 marauder in standard, your next highest character is a level 11 scion named spectraldeepthroat, and I doubt you had any good items on your own, much less even a 5l.

And you're COMPLAINING THE GAME IS TOO EASY.

Of course, that seems to be the way on these threads, although there are certainly exceptions.

I like how my point about entropy devolved into a semantics debate over the meaning of "scam," which was a tangential issue at best.

No, wait. No, I don't.

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ConanTheGamebarian wrote:

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Kechop wrote:

the only reason people party is because they are pussies

I take that all back.

you have one level 81 marauder in standard, your next highest character is a level 11 scion named spectraldeepthroat, and I doubt you had any good items on your own, much less even a 5l.

And you're COMPLAINING THE GAME IS TOO EASY.

I've seen that through the yellow windows of the D3 forums. People who trade and group have a much easier time, level up quicker (and cheaper!), get better gear quicker and are much less prone to die.
Then someone comes and says that if you play solo-selffound your progress eventually slows to a crawl, that it takes ages to get some cool stuff or maybe even an upgrade, and that eventually the game stops being fun.

So what do some traders and groupies do? Instead of acknowledging that there might some point to it, they go look up the player's chars and if there isn't a sufficient number of high-levels they tell him that his opinion is worth nothing.

His point, of course, had been all along that the gap between these two types of players is too wide, hence his lack of progress and shitty gear.
Doesn't matter, anything goes that defends the status quo, so without even realizing that they are basically confirming what the solo-selffound player had said, they produce gems like the bolded part, as if this is some sort of counter-argument.

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Artanthos wrote:

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danisonxtc wrote:

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mushioov wrote:

Thread was created in junction with the influx of "SFL Naow!" -threads.

I think that will be the last nail in the coffin if GGG ever caved in on that. It will utterly destroy what PoE is about.

Also there's only like 1 person (sodium777) constantly spamming multiple of those SFL threads to make it seem that it's a legitimate demand. Straight public opinion manipulation.

many players want to SFL. not only those who spam 24/7

Its not that there is a lack of self-found players. It's just that you don't need a separate league to choose not to participate in the economy.

While this is true what you say.... it does make some things terrible.... I have 100% self found gear, I have never traded with anyone ever, I have never grouped with anyone ever. Now I can and do play this way and I like it...yep works in any league. The problem? Well one of the problems is linking I've gotten a couple of 5L to drop at higher levels on lower level sort of crap gear. I've never had hundreds or thousands of fusings and probably never could unless I traded... have my doubts even then... I just think a no trade, permanent SFL with maybe some tweaked RNG too would be nice. There would be no economy issues if people could not trade and especially if it were a perm league then standard would never be affected...would be fun for me anyway.... as it stands now playing the way I play I sort of get screwed mainly on linked gear that's useful.... just a perm SF, no trade league, with better fusing chances would be awesome imo. I don't know why this would bug anyone.