Path of life nodes

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mrpetrov wrote:

That being said, aren't you all actually agreeing - but where you disagree is on its relevance?

kinda.

From a french expression, one could say that this thread is about "flies-fucking" :>.

On the same topic ( magic res ), I would like to have multiplicative values for magic res ( and the whole thing re-scaled around it of course ), with diminishing returns after like ~50%.

That way, people who really want to stack defenses could make a difference by heavily investing in it ( without it being OP/too easy ), and it would make the whole a little bit less magic res dependent <=> more flexibility / variety in gears.

I agree with OP in many ways. A viable softcore build seem to use at least 1/3 of its node to reach & pick health nodes. A viable hardcore uses at least 2/3. IMO this makes hardcore builds in particular rather boring, almost everybody does builds where your damage output is completely decoupled from the grid otherwise the end game kills you.

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deteego wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

You are reaaally missing something imho if you compare a flat health value ( even increased by a x% node, this will still lead to a flat health pool value ) and %reduction such as how magic res works in PoE.

I suggest that you re-read the whole thing.

And I'm not interested in D3 at all, even though basic mathematical are surely used in both cases.

Do you even read my post? I literally stated that using HP is pointless because resist/Armour work completely differently then HP then your going to insist that even using x% node which theoretically in EHP gives you the same amount per point which is similar to armour/resists (because the only similarity is the increase in EHP it may give you).

Spoiler

You don't calculate each separate instance of increased hp from one another.

If you have 1000 HP and have 50% hp increase, you'll gain 50% EHP.

If you have 1000 HP and you take 100% increase, you'll gain 100% EHP.

If you have 1000 HP and take a 200% increase and have 3000 health you gained 2000 or 200% EHP.

dafaq? >Even then resists scale weird because at 100% resist you take infinite amounts of damage because your immune to that type of damage. So assuming it works like a static increase like hp is pointless because resists simply do not work that way. <dafaq?

You use an HP example when we are talking about resist and I attempt to explain to you that you HP example is incorrect and doesn't apply but the same concept of diminishing returns is false.>I am not speaking of how each point of AR gives you less % of "resists" if you compare it a set lower amount of AR, It's that each point gives the same EHP regrade-less of how much you have.

And then again I'm going to reinstate my point, AR in D3 does not give diminishing returns on EHP. That is not why D3 system is better/different from Path. Feel free to argue the actual fucking D3 thread itself. Intellectuals who apparently think they know their stuff need to re-consider themselves.

Jesus fuck this is embarrassing

AR in D3 gives diminishing returns on the reduction%, which gives it a linear increase in EHP.

In PoE, MR gives you increasing returns on the reduction%, which means it gives a polynomial increase in EHP

Learn the god damn difference between EHP and reduction, or gtfo of this thread. Also quote from that thread

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Regardless, if you read the math and understood it, you would realize that this is not a myth, that your operation of dividing 70/45 is not correct and thus not even relevant to the discussion. It's also possible that you are providing incorrect figures for some other reason. They way damage reduction works is not debatable, though the way armor stacking mechanics works is often unclear.

And

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What I just read is this. Armor [and resistances] have diminishing returns.

I also think that you've misinterpreted what diminishing returns means. It means that as you gain more of one stat [lets say armor] that it becomes less effective when compared to other stats that give damage reduction. What you are assuming is this. Diminishing returns make armor less effective over-all. Which, like you have proven, isn't true.

This essentially means that the way to get the most total damage reduction is to stack your damage reduction stats equally.

Stop embarrassing yourself. These are mathematical formulas, they are set in god damn stone, what they do is not debatable, and the only reason we are pointlessly arguing about this is because you keep on confusing EHP with HP and with reduction

I said each point doesn't diminish because every point gives you the exact same mount of EHP.

You guys want to prove it wrong because apparently you believe the statement is wrong LOL.

All of you guys cannot read or something, I literally even stated several times that PoE scales manipulatively while in D3 every point gives you the exact same amount of EHP. As it in scales linearly. Why is this complicated to understand, the point does not diminish. If 10000 points give me 500% increase EHP, at 20000 points increase 1000% EHP, the resist value saying 75% to 80% does not fucking mean I get less EHP because I have more points in resist, I still get 500% increase EHP from 10000 to 20000. If I had 20000 points and to go 30000 points, it doesn't matter if I went from 80% to 82%, I STILL now have 1500% EHP because every 10000 points is worth 500% EHP.

Also your going to nit-pick with the thread a small number of people "disagree" with it in an attempt to prove that you "might" be right in some way when it is the most popular and widely accepted idea of how it works with the majority agreeing with it.

You people are ridiculously embarrassing for attempting to prove other people "incorrect" when you guys don't even acutely understand how the mathematical formulas apply logically.

I mean the "2nd excerpt" says that diminishing return means that when compared to OTHER forms of survival more points in resist/Armour would give less then in something else equivalent.
That still doesn't make it incorrect because the stat still doesn't "diminish" the more you have of itself. It just means stacking multiple layers of defenses is really good because how they interact with each other. Holy shit, I am so shocked your still trying to defend yourself as right when you even agree with the point of my statement.

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Regardless, if you read the math and understood it, you would realize that this is not a myth, that your operation of dividing 70/45 is not correct and thus not even relevant to the discussion. It's also possible that you are providing incorrect figures for some other reason. They way damage reduction works is not debatable, though the way armor stacking mechanics works is often unclear.

And your 1st one counter post example is one that just says they are wrong but they don know how to explain it but how damage reduction works is debatable?

Dayum I haven't visited this in a while nice debate :P

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RagnarokChu wrote:

I said each point doesn't diminish because every point gives you the exact same mount of EHP.

You guys want to prove it wrong because apparently you believe the statement is wrong LOL.

Im sorry, you have no god damn clue what you are talking about, you spent the entire thread jumping all over the place, replacing EHP with HP, and with reduction. You have changed your stance like 5 times, I am not going to bother reading your posts, because they are a waste of time.

All you have shown is that you wanted to argue for the sakes of arguing because you were cornered and didn't want to be "wrong". There were 2 graphs, shown before, clearly, about what the difference between the two are (one is a line, one is a curve). The only legitimate reason for arguing would be because you were blind and you couldn't see the difference in the grapha, or because you didn't know basic math.

So please, for the sake of us all, just leave the god damn thread before your incompetence derails it even more.

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deteego wrote:

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RagnarokChu wrote:

I said each point doesn't diminish because every point gives you the exact same mount of EHP.

You guys want to prove it wrong because apparently you believe the statement is wrong LOL.

Im sorry, you have no god damn clue what you are talking about, you spent the entire thread jumping all over the place, replacing EHP with HP, and with reduction. You have changed your stance like 5 times, I am not going to bother reading your posts, because they are a waste of time.

All you have shown is that you wanted to argue for the sakes of arguing because you were cornered and didn't want to be "wrong". There were 2 graphs, shown before, clearly, about what the difference between the two are (one is a line, one is a curve). The only legitimate reason for arguing would be because you were blind and you couldn't see the difference in the grapha, or because you didn't know basic math.

So please, for the sake of us all, just leave the god damn thread before your incompetence derails it even more.

I say: he show the math or gtfo. :D

Nobody has explained why stacking resists or life or defense is necessarily a bad thing.

If there are no defense nodes then there is no choice whatsoever, you pick a build and the best damage nodes to go with it.

In terms of resistances, a lack of hard caps and break points in D3 was one of the reasons I played it for perhaps a 10th the time of D2. Balancing builds around caps is a lot more engaging than simply stacking a single stat to infinity.

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randomalias wrote:

Nobody has explained why stacking resists or life or defense is necessarily a bad thing.

If there are no defense nodes then there is no choice whatsoever, you pick a build and the best damage nodes to go with it.

In terms of resistances, a lack of hard caps and break points in D3 was one of the reasons I played it for perhaps a 10th the time of D2. Balancing builds around caps is a lot more engaging than simply stacking a single stat to infinity.

What let me get this straight

Being forced to cap every character at 75% resist is more engaging than the choice of stacking MR, getting a decent amount of MR, or going glass cannony and getting minimal amount of MR?

D3 had problems, but the way their resistance formula worked definitely was not one of them. The reason people stacked MR is because D3 had like 3-4 stats on each item that were looked for