Free to play = infinite bots

1. there is no bot protection because whenever they find a counter against ur bot, there will be a new undetected bot a few days later .

2. banning accounts will do what ?
because accounts are free and orbs does drop starting with lvl 1, u can simply make a bot
who plays from lvl 1 to xx and then starting a new character to do the same over and over
again.
if the account gets banned u simply create a new one and keep doing ur botwork.
every day u will trade ur bot orbs with people and then trade them again with ur
botfree friend who stores ur orbs .

3. ip block is useless for many people because there are programs to evade that.

4. captcha i think is a just a little bit useful because there are enough bots who can write
the right captcha text

5. and in poe will be people who do play with bots because they want orbs to buy the
best equip . its in the nature of some people to be the best and get as much attention as
possible with showing off their awesome equip and mass amounts of orbs .

i have a pretty fair knowledge of botting because i saw people in real life doing it with diablo 2 and i used them myself in some games . i also created my own bad bots, thats why i know a little bit what they can do ^^

If you need to pay real life money to get some recognition on an online game, which was made for fun anyway, you have a strange sense of what is supposed to be "fun" about the whole thing. I'll admit to making a pile off of World of Failcraft back in the day, but most of that was through powerleveling folks. It was, at that time, just a way to make money out of what I saw as a hobby. I later quit it to play games full-time at around my last year of college. I didn't even have need of the money myself since I come from a very well-off background. It just seemed like a good idea at the time to jump on the bandwagon.

I'm not as vocal with my criticism of P2W than most others but the destruction of a game's economy isn't something a body like me prefers. That's why I stuck mostly to powerleveling, and in any case, most equips and things are BoP or BoE. I don't like bots. There's something about them which causes a lot of trouble to whichever games they get introduced in. Apart from that, I really don't have much to say. Destroying the economy of a game with botted and duped items hurts legit players who have to destroy their fingers to get even partway to the glittering gear seen as the ideal setup for most. I gave up on Diablo 2 at around the peak of the bot crisis and never more played the base game. I stuck to Median and Median XL and never looked back since then. I know what those legit players have felt like, because I stand among their ranks too. There's no fun in paying to get somebody fully decked out. In any case, what the christ are you going to do with that character? It's not like you even know half of what any player that level should know about their PC, given that you haven't played it from start to finish yourself. You'd just be a liability on your raid group.

I just hope I didn't tread on anyone's toes with those views. :(

"

Delamonica wrote:

1. there is no bot protection because whenever they find a counter against ur bot, there will be a new undetected bot a few days later .

2. banning accounts will do what ?
because accounts are free and orbs does drop starting with lvl 1, u can simply make a bot
who plays from lvl 1 to xx and then starting a new character to do the same over and over
again.
if the account gets banned u simply create a new one and keep doing ur botwork.
every day u will trade ur bot orbs with people and then trade them again with ur
botfree friend who stores ur orbs .

3. ip block is useless for many people because there are programs to evade that.

4. captcha i think is a just a little bit useful because there are enough bots who can write
the right captcha text

5. and in poe will be people who do play with bots because they want orbs to buy the
best equip . its in the nature of some people to be the best and get as much attention as
possible with showing off their awesome equip and mass amounts of orbs .

i have a pretty fair knowledge of botting because i saw people in real life doing it with diablo 2 and i used them myself in some games . i also created my own bad bots, thats why i know a little bit what they can do ^^

IP bans serve to be a great annoyance.

Sure, you can get around an IP ban, but that means you can never use that proxy again, and have to find a new one.

but that also means that you still have a large set of proxies to go over, unless for some reason (local firewall, etc) your list of proxies is pretty slim to begin with. As far as I know it isn't possible (or at least not easy) to bypass WebBlocker, for instance.

"

UhtredRagnarson wrote:

Actually u can lose in a MMORPG if you will never be able to buy sets/items of ur own lvl so u can fight and get to a higher lvl, then u loose. And it happens pretty frequently in games, witch is something GGG is trying to stop from happening but would probably happen if bots and alt. accounts were allowed.

That's why there's regular shops. Am I missing something here? How would gold farming make things more expensive instead of less?

"

Andreasen wrote:

"

UhtredRagnarson wrote:

Actually u can lose in a MMORPG if you will never be able to buy sets/items of ur own lvl so u can fight and get to a higher lvl, then u loose. And it happens pretty frequently in games, witch is something GGG is trying to stop from happening but would probably happen if bots and alt. accounts were allowed.

That's why there's regular shops. Am I missing something here? How would gold farming make things more expensive instead of less?

What would happen is that people would farm less, and start paying money more. In turn creates less currency on the market, therefore inflates prices.

You don't even play POE, why are you still arguing that gold farmers are a good thing?

"

ciknay wrote:

"

Andreasen wrote:

When you say "should", you're basing this on your opinion alone. I guess a game can be an escape from real life, into sort of classless utopia for some. However, Monopoly could be played with real money. Poker is often played with real money.
...but your example isn't good, because Monopoly is a race, while MMORPGs are not. You can't lose in MMORPGs just because you didn't start out rich. However, you can lose the full game experience if you do start out rich and choose to spend money to skip ahead. This only becomes "unfair" if the parts that you're skipping is dreadful grinding, but in that case, why bother playing the game if it's not worth it?

Western culture has a 'thing' about playing fair and everyone having an equal playing ground. (Think cowboy shootouts, and sword duels)

And as such, western games are based on the premise that no matter what, every player has equal chance to be the best. P2W games offer RL money for this chance, which some people cannot do.
As POE is NOT P2W, everyone is on equal playing ground, and GGG have set the playing ground to be equal for all players. And since they made the game, they can make the rules. People using real life trading give themselves an unfair advantage by gaining items and currency that they themselves did not earn.

Your example of using real money to play monopoly is a flawed, as you said you can use money instead of monopoly money. While you can use real money, the point the other guy was trying ot make was that people shouldn't have more monopoly money simply because they have more real money. Some people play poker with chips instead of money.

No, I am *not* going to think cowboy shootouts and sword duels, because those are examples of competition. There is no competition in MMORPGs. If you play on Hardcore, there's bragging rights, but I'm assuming that that mode has trading with other PCs disabled. You simply can't "be the best" if you've died 100 times to get all your equipment, because everybody will get good equipment sooner or later. You don't compete when you play, so there's no need to start on equal footing, or limit "earning" to in-game only.
If GGG doesn't want gold farming, that's their decision - I'm just saying that there's no need to fight gold farming. (I'm almost in favour of bots too, but in that case nobody actually works for any equipment or money, and bots can also be used to cheat in duels. When you duel, you usually want to duel against another person.)

Again, Monopoly is a competitive game, where more money gains you an advantage. Only when both of these conditions are present, does money become even close to unfair. It doesn't become unfair in MMORPGs because there's no competition, and it doesn't become unfair in Poker, because money doesn't give you an advantage.

They ARE competitions, but also competitions based on the principle of fair play. Cowboy duels only ever shoot at the same time, therefore the person with the better skill wins. In sword duels, if one person has a sharp blade, and the other person a dull blade, then the duel is not fair.

You have no idea what the difference between HC and Default in in POE, so you should actually do some research before pulling facts out of your ass.

And POE IS a competitive game. It doesn't have to be for some players. Why do you think PVP was introduced if the players didn't want competition? No competition means there is little to no drive to level up.

I'll give an example of how gold buying can ruin a game experience.

There is a Korean MMORPG called Rappelz. At the moment, the level cap is set at 180, but most people don't make it past 150 the leveling is that grueling.

To be truly rich in that game, it takes years of playing the game to collect high tier pets, get the rarer drops and earn certain milestones.

I only know of ONE player who became filthy rich without using the cash shop or RL trading.

The rest bought their wares with real money, removing all challenge of becoming rich.

And that is the point of Path of Exile. Everything is a challenge. You are a filthy, sea sodden exile fighting for survival, not a godlike paladin with 300% more shiny. If you buy anything to make the game easier (P2W), then this is not the game for you. This game WILL not cater to lazy idiots like yourself. GGG have said time and time again, they are against P2W, and using real money to purchase items is P2W.

Go back to Runescape.

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ciknay wrote:

"

Andreasen wrote:

"

UhtredRagnarson wrote:

Actually u can lose in a MMORPG if you will never be able to buy sets/items of ur own lvl so u can fight and get to a higher lvl, then u loose. And it happens pretty frequently in games, witch is something GGG is trying to stop from happening but would probably happen if bots and alt. accounts were allowed.

That's why there's regular shops. Am I missing something here? How would gold farming make things more expensive instead of less?

What would happen is that people would farm less, and start paying money more. In turn creates less currency on the market, therefore inflates prices.

You don't even play POE, why are you still arguing that gold farmers are a good thing?

What you described is not inflation. You described a shortage. However, your scenario is not how it would work. What has happened in every mmo to date is the farmers create so much extra currency that everything becomes alot more expensive, which is inflation. Inflation happens when there is too much currency, that in turn makes each piece of currency worth less.

Remember back to your high school history class, they likely taught you about Post WWI Germany and how the gov printed off so many Deutche Marks, officially known as Papiermarks, that inflation occurred, and then Hyperinflation occurred. There's a famous picture of a man trying to buy bread with a wheelbarrow full of money.

Once botters start farming the orbs, the're will be alot of orbs in the economy, and prices for everything will go up. I think there will be other problems, but that's all for a different thread.

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RaistlinM wrote:

What you described is not inflation. You described a shortage. However, your scenario is not how it would work. What has happened in every mmo to date is the farmers create so much extra currency that everything becomes alot more expensive, which is inflation. Inflation happens when there is too much currency, that in turn makes each piece of currency worth less.

Remember back to your high school history class, they likely taught you about Post WWI Germany and how the gov printed off so many Deutche Marks, officially known as Papiermarks, that inflation occurred, and then Hyperinflation occurred. There's a famous picture of a man trying to buy bread with a wheelbarrow full of money.

Once botters start farming the orbs, the're will be alot of orbs in the economy, and prices for everything will go up. I think there will be other problems, but that's all for a different thread.

Never did history.

Well it seemed logical to me the way I presented the idea. But yours seems more realistic.