When did people start trading like this? >.>

"

Redzor wrote:

Tl/dr: when selling, state a b/o, don't be a jerk.

why would I do that when I can make desperate ppl offer me... more? For those of us who like to interact/trade with others, that time "wasted" not adding a b/o is nothing. If I get tired of trying to sell somthing and NEED cash, ill add a buyout.


Here's what goes through most ppl's minds.

I have an item, and I have a price I'd really like for it... say 5 exalt. So i spam trade with it and ppl usually offer me something like 3-4 exalt. The people who ask how much, I don't respond at all. After some time if no one offers anymore, ill cave into the 4 guy and see if i cant get him to toss in something extra. And there's always the chance someone might say "6/7/8 exalt, or they might try to trade an item that could be worth more than 5"

As a buyer you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the seller.

When you buying something, and you have a price in mind... just send them a tell 'Ill give you 5 exalt for that item" unless they say OK, don't respond at all... don't even waste your time. Thats how you can make it easier on yourself.

You would be surprised how many times I have done that and they respond 30 mintues later with "OK fine"

"

Zepidel wrote:

There is no capital in PoE, everything is a commodity. And NOT PLAYING is not a solution lol.

I use the term "commodity" to indicate trading of items that exist in large quantities within the market. For example, you will find many 20 quality lvl1 discharge gems. There are enough that a standard price can be determined at any given point in time (within reason). However, a particularly rolled rare is unlikely to have many exact duplicates in the market.

I'd also consider capital in PoE to exist -- having a stash of a variety orbs lets you take advantage of favorable trades when they exist. At least, there's some amount of wealth that you don't intend to consume, but is used only to enable the accumulation of more wealth.

Not playing is perfectly well a solution (for players); even still playing PoE you could just make new characters once you get to a certain level. Some players do this; I'm waiting for a new league because (statement only relevant before anarchy ended:) I have enough alch- and low-level-rare- wealth that it just wouldn't be very interesting to make a new character at this point.

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I get the sentiment that only poopsockers get the drops needed to do real trading, since you can play for hours on end and never see an exalt/chaos. The only way to solve that and not mess with the trading system would be to increase the frequency of the drops, so that casual players have a chance in hell of obtaining some of the higher level currency.

I agree. However, with the existence of trading that would make "poopsockers" have too easy a time with the game, so this isn't considered desirable by the community or the devs (from what I have read).

"

If that messes with the game mechanic too much then you would need to add fraction drops (like pieces of exalt/chaos, 5 pieces combine to make a whole orb or something)

This would also be a good thing, since it would reduce the variance of drops significantly. It might not be enough to matter, though. If exalts drop every 200h of gameplay, there still just aren't enough exalts in existence for a significant fraction of the player base to ever use one on a piece of gear.

"

Zepidel wrote:

"

Redzor wrote:

Tl/dr: when selling, state a b/o, don't be a jerk.

why would I do that when I can make desperate ppl offer me... more? For those of us who like to interact/trade with others, that time "wasted" not adding a b/o is nothing. If I get tired of trying to sell somthing and NEED cash, ill add a buyout.


Here's what goes through most ppl's minds.

I have an item, and I have a price I'd really like for it... say 5 exalt. So i spam trade with it and ppl usually offer me something like 3-4 exalt. The people who ask how much, I don't respond at all. After some time if no one offers anymore, ill cave into the 4 guy and see if i cant get him to toss in something extra. And there's always the chance someone might say "6/7/8 exalt, or they might try to trade an item that could be worth more than 5"

As a buyer you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the seller.

When you buying something, and you have a price in mind... just send them a tell 'Ill give you 5 exalt for that item" unless they say OK, don't respond at all... don't even waste your time. Thats how you can make it easier on yourself.

You would be surprised how many times I have done that and they respond 30 mintues later with "OK fine"

Obviously because you are cashing on people's desperation, as you admit. Like selling food at high price to starving people. Usually not appreciated.

"

Nightprowler wrote:

Probably been said, but people who ask for an offer without setting any benchmark need to expect a lowball offer...that's how negotiating works.

Seller starts high, buyer starts low, they meet somewhere in between.

Only in situations where there is exactly one potential buyer and exactly one potential seller.

In other situations, a seller can start with a certain price A, and the buyer tries to get it at price C which is lower than A; however, then the seller notices a PM or forum thread where another person offers a price B which is higher than A, which means that the buyer fcked himself over, because now the seller won't sell for lower than B.

"

Redzor wrote:

Obviously because you are cashing on people's desperation, as you admit. Like selling food at high price to starving people. Usually not appreciated.

If people are starving its because there isn't much food left, meaning its worth more (supply/demand). If people are starving there are most likely much larger problems at hand than just price gougers.

You sound like some kind of commie

"

Zepidel wrote:

why would I do that when I can make desperate ppl offer me... more? For those of us who like to interact/trade with others, that time "wasted" not adding a b/o is nothing. If I get tired of trying to sell somthing and NEED cash, ill add a buyout.

Here's what goes through most ppl's minds.

I have an item, and I have a price I'd really like for it... say 5 exalt. So i spam trade with it and ppl usually offer me something like 3-4 exalt. The people who ask how much, I don't respond at all. After some time if no one offers anymore, ill cave into the 4 guy and see if i cant get him to toss in something extra. And there's always the chance someone might say "6/7/8 exalt, or they might try to trade an item that could be worth more than 5"

This adds evidence to what I was thinking, that the seller often doesn't really need the cash. You're looking for a very good deal, and have no reason to accept anything less than that. I can't do what I've seen above and imply that you're not doing what's right given your situation; that's precisely what's best for you, so go for it.

"

As a buyer you are ALWAYS at the mercy of the seller.

That's a feature of using trade chat or forums. With an AH, this asymmetry is removed. (No, I'm not advocating an AH). It's very difficult to shop among upgrades for your gear, especially in the 4-month leagues. The seller often has monopoly power.

And, as a buyer, you often have no alternative other than to find a seller and pay a hefty premium for your upgrade. Your other options are to get your upgrade via drops (poor drop rate for non-MF builds makes this hard, and I hear it's not much better if you MF even :)), or via crafting (which is very expensive, even moreso than dealing with traders).

I also wouldn't be surprised if lots of perfectly fine, but not BiS, gear is just rotting in stashes somewhere. Even with shops, listing that stuff can be tedious.

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mazul wrote:

"

Nightprowler wrote:

Probably been said, but people who ask for an offer without setting any benchmark need to expect a lowball offer...that's how negotiating works.

Seller starts high, buyer starts low, they meet somewhere in between.

Only in situations where there is exactly one potential buyer and exactly one potential seller.

In other situations, a seller can start with a certain price A, and the buyer tries to get it at price C which is lower than A; however, then the seller notices a PM or forum thread where another person offers a price B which is higher than A, which means that the buyer fcked himself over, because now the seller won't sell for lower than B.

Alice wants to sell for A
Bob offers B
Carol offers C.

Bob made Carol's life harder by offering B > C; Carol can still offer C' > B. Carol didn't make things hard for herself by making her initial C offer.

I don't think anyone will dispute that having a monopoly on a market with many buyers is good for the seller, though.

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Zepidel wrote:

"

Redzor wrote:

Obviously because you are cashing on people's desperation, as you admit. Like selling food at high price to starving people. Usually not appreciated.

If people are starving its because there isn't much food left, meaning its worth more (supply/demand). If people are starving there are most likely much larger problems at hand than just price gougers.

You sound like some kind of commie

Terminology aside, people don't like to deal with those who want to get more due to others being desperate, buyers always being at the mecry of sellers and other clearly discriminatory reasons. To the point that they want to warn others to not to fell into it.

That's why threads like this appear so often and are heavily discussed. It doesn't look like communism or whatever, more like normal civil reaction to such practices. That would result in legal regulations if ingame PoE society was real and could develop.

That's why we usually have publically set fixed prices in real life. The seller can set any price (in certain cases) but 'buyout' is set and is public. At least if we are speaking about the economies that are considered most developed nowdays.

Edit: When buying a PoE supporter pack, we don't get "offer" from Chris, do we? :)

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syrioforel wrote:

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Firecrest5 wrote:

Really, an opening lowball (or higball) offer has no effect on negotiations whatsoever. Other than making the other party feel like you're not serious.

It does. It's called "anchoring."

This. Also, anchoring has strongest effects on people who don't have a price in mind before you start. In other words, the exact people that won't quote you a b/o when you ask.

Therefore, lowball everyone who won't give you a price.