Magic Find: Why fix something if it isn't broken?

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Sayyid wrote:

tl;dr argument against removing MF: "If you don't want to run a MF character, regardless of your reasons for that, you are just a silly casual, l2p. Us hardcore folks are going to run MFers because that's what hardcore folks do, and this is a hardcore game. Did I say L2MF yet?"

Back in the real world, some of us don't want to play one of the specialized builds that gets affected less by the need to drop item quality in exchange for magic find.

Dropping a pair of totems then playing "dodge the enemies" does not appeal to me as a playing style. Conjuring a horde of summons then playing "hide from the enemies" does not appeal to me as a playing style.

I could go down the MF-build list further, but that pretty well sums it up.

The real question is actually this: what does magic find actually add to the game?

All it does, to my eyes, is force every player to choose: (1) start with a build whose playing style might not appeal to the player, or (2) get mocked for being poor by people who declare themselves more "hardcore" for having picked the MF character first.

Maybe, it's totems/summons (not IR/IQ) are the roots of problem? Perhaps, they just require some nerf, so playing like "place totems, run away, wait, return to collect loots" wont be viable? Perhaps, more fast enemies with teleports, improved AI, etc would solve problem?
Just imagine, that suddenly all summons and totems were deleted from game? Do you think then there still will be builds, who can get max IR/IQ without great sacrifices?

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

wow 17 exalts for the privilege of being able to do decent mf to farm .. more exalts.

makes me glad I saved a bunch of time and went back to watching paint dry.

Yeah..using 17EX as the example to say voila as if it's simple. A lot of people in this game will never see 17EX. I guess if you add up all the alt, trans and alcs along with the stray chaos and gcp here and there they may.

Yes I recently also posted a thread on the unfortunate side of MF. I have played for quite a while now and I'm currently on a break from PoE until the MF part is either removed or re-balanced into the game. For the record I was running 120IIQ/300IIR and getting the absolute worst drops for weeks at a time with no end in site. I had to switch to some other games which I wont mention in here.

TLDR: I am breaking from PoE since about 2 weeks or so ago because of MF.

Like most things in this game: mf is broken

Mf is broken for specific builds. It is not working when you have skills which are based on dots. My main is expl arrow marra. So what you have to say about that OP? Blablabla? i think the core of this game/arpg is about finding loot. One of the keys for finding good loot is mf. That is by design. Lot of skills are based on dots.

Best to check this game when they go live and maybe they start to fix these kind of core elements.

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bhavv wrote:

Make a lightning arrow or power siphon MF character then.

And if "sit back at the edge of the screen and send forking-chain explosions at enemies you can't see until you hit a reflect mob and insta-die" doesn't appeal to me?

You're missing the point. The point is that there will always be a short list of classes that can make the magic find tradeoff less painfully than other classes. As long as magic find exists to any significant degree, it will end up being pseudo-required (on pain of having to spend much longer to grind your gear) to choose that class first in order to get your gear. That's because drop rates will have to be balanced based on the assumption that people will be magic finding as long as it is there.

As long as there's a short list of best MF builds (inevitable as long as MF exists) there will be people who do not enjoy that particular play style who will end up having to choose: play a character they hate, or be poor.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

Maybe, it's totems/summons (not IR/IQ) are the roots of problem? Perhaps, they just require some nerf, so playing like "place totems, run away, wait, return to collect loots" wont be viable? Perhaps, more fast enemies with teleports, improved AI, etc would solve problem?
Just imagine, that suddenly all summons and totems were deleted from game? Do you think then there still will be builds, who can get max IR/IQ without great sacrifices?

See above.

those guys spend a lot of ex to make a mf char and you want to nerf them lol

Every single point the OP states is biased.

Either : he plays a sporker himself, he never played a melee char in endgame, he doesn't solo and always has a culler/mfer in his party.

No, as it is now MF is not fine. I don't advocate its entire removal tho, but heavy diminushing returns should start at around the 100% mark.

From what I've seen, it's generally long time players who are against MF builds. I've played a lot of different builds including summoner MF and while the drops are great, I don't see why you need to be pigeonholed into boring as fuck gameplay to get good loot. A lot of us have come up with original builds that are really fun to play, but the loot is shit because there isn't the same amount of gear independancy that a summoner or a sporker has.

The beauty of an ARPG lies in the fact you can create the gameplay experience you want, but as long as POE has terrible base drop rates to account for the ridiculously high MF that can be reached, you will always feel gimped playing something out of the ordinary.

Edit: One day all you Magic Find lovers will tire of your first character. When you level your alt for the 5th time in fellshrine, without finding a single upgrade, you'll be asking for the same thing we are.

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lukeiy wrote:

Edit: One day all you Magic Find lovers will tire of your first character. When you level your alt for the 5th time in fellshrine, without finding a single upgrade, you'll be asking for the same thing we are.

This.

The practical effect of high MF is that base drops have to be nerfed hard. This is because drop rates get balanced based on ability to find items with high-MF gear, because that's the gear that will put it into circulation. Low base drop rates mean crap gameplay for non-MF builds.

Arguments for MF: "I get more stuff that way!" -- Wrong. If there were no MF, base drop rates could be increased. Getting more stuff is just an illusion. What's actually happening is that non-MF builds are getting less stuff.

"If we didn't have MF gear, we wouldn't have to make tradeoffs on our gear! We'd all be overpowered!" -- Mods could easily be rebalanced (i.e., nerfed across the board) based on the assumption that you're not going to waste slots for MF mods. This would make your trade-offs in line with "more resist, or more damage?" instead of "waste a slot, or not waste a slot?"

Are there any other arguments out there in support of having MF? I think you'll find that they're all similarly flawed.

So what you have is a game mechanic that serves no practical purpose in the grand scheme of things, but that inevitably will force some portion of the population to run accounts that they simply do not enjoy.

That's what we call a "bad mechanic." It should be removed.

I think what it comes down to is people who bitch and moan about magic find don't own/never played with a magic finder and are a tad miss informed about what magic find really "gives". I have spent hours and hours in docks got like 3-4 worth while rares and have spent hours and hours and hours in maps and still a few worth while rares NO top end uniques out of docks or maps hell the best drop I have gotten a bringer of the rain was in a 71 temple with meh mods on my none magic finder. People need to give up this notion that magic find makes amazing uniques fall from the sky. No shaves drops no Soul takers no andvarius not a single multi exalt unique. One could argue well you get alts but with an exchange of 600 alts to an exalt you are going to be farming for days. I mostly pull horrible rares and horrible uniques.... 302% rarity 81% Quantity