TL 2 So Dissapointing

The problem with TL2 is, that too many people haven't researched it. I got /ignored by some players in PoE global chat, because I told them, that TL2 wasn't a game for me, because people could cheat/hack all they wanted. People didn't believe me and told me to stop trolling - I guess they're pretty disappointed now :P

I did buy TL2, mostly to support the ARPG-scene, but I must admit, that without competition, it's not for me. If I want the non-competitive experience in RPG's I go for Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

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ongZ wrote:

I did buy TL2, mostly to support the ARPG-scene, but I must admit, that without competition, it's not for me. If I want the non-competitive experience in RPG's I go for Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Elder Scrolls are not arpg games, but as you said RPG games. There is very low number of diablo style isometric arpg games out there. So anyway, thank you for suporting something that you generally don't like, because you make people that like that type of games get developed.

ExileDude re read all the post again, there's really nothing else to say. I just want to correct your on again some bad information that you have about tl2 because you didn't do any research.

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ExileDude wrote:

What I hate about Torchlight 2 isn't that people cheat, but that people are encouraged to cheat. That's crossing a line. Runic could have done a few simple things to pretend they don't want us to cheat, but they do the opposite. They do the same thing as you. They just shrug and go "what did you expect?"

First this not corect. Runic give you tool to see if someone cheats (if his name is red with symbol! he used console, or have heavy hacks on his character), give you blocking profiles, if they support cheating they would not do it do you agree?

Second, there is no simple thing how they can prevent cheating without using closed servers.

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ExileDude wrote:

Torchlight 2 could easily have been a Neverwinter Diablo, if they had wanted to. Instead we got a lot of players who looooves to cheat, and hardly anyone who dods anything useful with the editor. New classes? New levels? New monsters? Screw that, let's cheat! Woohoo! :/

Where the fuck are you getting all this stupid info? Do you do any reserch on anything, or you just want to troll? Editor is not even out yet, how can they make mods? On some of your first posts you said you did know what you where buying, and you did research for info, but on almost every post you say something wrong. Please before saying somthing research so you dont look like a troll.

All the people saying that Runic should have set up closed servers for them. Where is that check you are prepared to give them so that they can buy and maintain those servers?

Or did you think that after TL2 they were just going to sit on their hands and do nothing now, instead of work on their next project? As good of a dev team they are, they are not a multi-million dollar company that afford to work on a new project, and constantly maintain a set of closed servers at the same time with all the customer service and updates that would entail and not suffer on both fronts, monetarily and man power.

So where is the money?

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xtrem wrote:

no item economy whatsoever
everyone importing everything

the game itself is fun to play the classes have fun skills and ive def sunk about 20 hours into it already but the devs just dont seem to give a fuck about anything
they just are of the opinion that players can do whatever they want however they want and dont care
thats why their game will never have the high level of addict players that poe does
ill be back to you when OB happens

TL2 didnt make me happy and we dont even mention that other ARPG that failed so hard it inverted on itself and became WoW

What you feel about TL2 is true for YOU. But what you said about the developers is simply untrue. They do give a "fuck" as you so eloquently stated.

That said, people mod games. Has it hurt Skyrim? Oblivion? Medieval Total War II? Neverwinter Nights? Baldur's Gate II? Maybe you didn't get the memo but the devs have said they will release some free DLC AND they WANT to people to alter the game. Now, you talk about people doing what they want. WHY is that a BAD thing? Diablo II lasted so very long because of community mods like Median XL. Again, I do not see Skyrim or indeed ANY of the games I cited as dying. For online play in TL2, there is a mechanism that will flag players who are using mods. Look at the Steam Workshop for Skyrim; look at Neverwinter Vault, look at sites devoted to Oblivion and you will notice that only a very tiny percentage of mods are cheats. Now, the PLAYER decides whether or not to download those cheats.

As to item economy, need I remind you how that derailed a recent game from a once respected game producer?

I am overjoyed that PoE and TL2 exist and BOTH are superb games. If anything, these smaller studios will revolutionize PC gaming and we will see a return to the paradigm that above all things, games should be fun.

Agaian, you do not like TL2. Fair enough, but please do not state that the devs don't care? The devs here and at Runic DO care about us.

Personally? I found Torchlight 2 lacking in a sense, but forgivable, considering the size of the company that created it in the first place. Runic did a great job with it, and delivered on their promises. At the moment, the tools needed for modding aren't out yet. But when they are, I hope that there are some very ambitious modders out there.

As for an item economy, my stance is a bit controversial. Mostly, because I believe strongly in the concept of purchasing funds or gear. At the same time... I fully understand that it isn't for every game and I am fine with that. The main problem is, games that do not support it, are often subjected to it. If companies learned to embrace it, if anything, to attempt to get rid of the gold sellers, things might be a bit better. Buying something in RMAH is only different then the traditional AH, because you are using digital currency. Diablo 3 proves one thing, to create a game that supports the concept of buying gear with real money, a ballance must exist to allow those who do not use the RMAH the chance at earning gold as they so desire to. In other words, the game must present and support the ideals of both the RMAH and AH. As I understand it, Diablo 3 is more focused towards the RMAH, people who just want to use a traditional AH are SOL in this regard.

The wonderful thing about TL2 is it's capability to support the idea that multiple play-styles can co-exist within a community without hurting anyone. The problem with this, is people are not as understanding as they should be. MMORPGs often become "It is my way, or else." If you do not conform to someone elses needs, then they automatically put you on ignore, even if the reason is rather stupid in the first place.

Not to beat a dead horse but...

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ExileDude wrote:

All I want is a game without cheating. It ruined Diablo 2. It ruined Diablo 3 (why do you think they force us to stay online all the time, and all that junk?).

and then...

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ExileDude wrote:

Actually, I loved Diablo 3. Finished it on Normal with every character, Nightmare with three and made it to Act 3 on Hll with one. What ruined it for me was the lack of interesting loot.

!!??

Furthermore...

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ExileDude wrote:

What I hate about Torchlight 2 isn't that people cheat, but that people are encouraged to cheat. That's crossing a line. Runic could have done a few simple things to pretend they don't want us to cheat, but they do the opposite. They do the same thing as you. They just shrug and go "what did you expect?"

Seriously though, what DID you expect? When I bought my copy of Morrowind back in the day it came with a very user-friendly editor, and great documentation on how to use it. You know what? I might have even cheated myself a glass sword or two...

Clearly Morrowind was a terrible game made by stupid people.

I removed the blindness side effect from the blinding boots of speed once. In my last days of playing morrowind, I attempted to create a massive underground city.

It is clearly the shittiest game of all time.... </s>

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blacksinow wrote:

Personally? I found Torchlight 2 lacking in a sense, but forgivable, considering the size of the company that created it in the first place. Runic did a great job with it, and delivered on their promises. At the moment, the tools needed for modding aren't out yet. But when they are, I hope that there are some very ambitious modders out there.

As for an item economy, my stance is a bit controversial. Mostly, because I believe strongly in the concept of purchasing funds or gear. At the same time... I fully understand that it isn't for every game and I am fine with that. The main problem is, games that do not support it, are often subjected to it. If companies learned to embrace it, if anything, to attempt to get rid of the gold sellers, things might be a bit better. Buying something in RMAH is only different then the traditional AH, because you are using digital currency. Diablo 3 proves one thing, to create a game that supports the concept of buying gear with real money, a ballance must exist to allow those who do not use the RMAH the chance at earning gold as they so desire to. In other words, the game must present and support the ideals of both the RMAH and AH. As I understand it, Diablo 3 is more focused towards the RMAH, people who just want to use a traditional AH are SOL in this regard.

The wonderful thing about TL2 is it's capability to support the idea that multiple play-styles can co-exist within a community without hurting anyone. The problem with this, is people are not as understanding as they should be. MMORPGs often become "It is my way, or else." If you do not conform to someone elses needs, then they automatically put you on ignore, even if the reason is rather stupid in the first place.

TL;DR: GGG and Runic give a f*ck!

Blacksinow,

Excellent post! Your assertion that D3 should have had the option available for those - I admit like myself - to not use the RMAH/AH. Now anyone reading this and ready to fire with I can choose not to use them, you ARE right - technically speaking. And to this point I have not used either and will not avail myself of a pay to win mechanic. Blacksinow NAILED it when he/she stated "The wonderful thing about TL2 is it's capability to support the idea that multiple play-styles can co-exist within a community without hurting anyone."

I play TL2, PoE, AND D3. D3 has amazing fast paced combat. I do not play it for the gear grind, which I am convinced after experience AND the hundreds of posts on the D3 forum for Blizzard to fix the practically non-existent useful item drops. So I play D3 in short bursts to have FUN slaying demons - Act III being the BEST of the 4 acts IMHO. With PoE I never feel as though I am on a grindfest. Yes, the different approach of PoE with passives that are ALSO actives took a bit of rethinking on my part. That said, I have more useful gear that I don't use, so new players hit me up and I will GIVE you some low level uniques. No strings attached. I do it because I want people to feel welcome. Both Torchlight II and Path of Exile reward players so I can simultaneously have fun slaying anything that moves AND not have to pay for rewards.

In the long run, I believe that PoE and TL2 (and possibly Grim Daw given that devs' pedigree) will dominate the ARPG scene. IMHO, even at BETA, Path of Exile is already a much better game in terms of core mechanics, as well as unique ideas. As for the art style, zoom in on your characters. The skin texture on the models look damned good - props to the art department from a 3D artist! Torchlight II's tier system for skills is another nice innovation that even the venerable D3 didn't have.

BOTH PoE and TL2 have infinitely better rewarding endgames. Let's be serious and honest here: paragon levels in D3 mean nothing really except ego stroking and e-peen overcompensating. TL2 has endgame+ and maps you can buy. PoE has map challenges. Both games have gear that levels: PoE with gems that level based upon your choices in the skill web - what a GTREAT idea! In TL2, gear can level if you complete certain tasks. I have a unique "shotgunne" that will get insanely powerful provided I kill 50 zombies - THAT is a cool idea as well: a sort of micro achievement that means a hell of a lot more than most Steam achievements.

So to the person I initially responded, again, your assertion that Runic devs don't give a f*ck is simply unfounded. Are you man enough to take it back?

We are in the midst of a splendid Renaissance with respect to the ARPG genre. Right now we have two games, PoE and TL2 that offer a plethora of player choices. In addition, to reiterate Blacksinow's excellent asseertiomn, each game allows the player to play as she/he desires.

People MAY cheat in TL2, but that does not mean ALL people will cheat. People may not like the art style of PoE compared to D3, but, there is simply no basis in the argument that D3's "look" makes it a "better" game. Damnit, do some people FORGET that PoE is still a closed BETA FFS??!! This game continues to amaze me with each patch. I have never felt nerfed on any of my characters and during the stress tests, the devs are there to answer questions in real time. The same was true for TL2 during its comapratively short BETA period. The proof in the pudding about giving a f*ck comes down to this very very real fact: Blizzard devs - which if you watch the credit roll is almost comparable to watch the credit roll in LOTR - are NOT present in the PTR. The CMs are a farce. Tell me who gives a f*ck? Devs like GGG and Runic who ARE with us, or the alternative? Blizzard is asking for feedback on the forthcoming 1.05 patch. THAT is a passive act which Blizzard has employed since launch day. Surely Blizzard has enough people on the payroll to play in the PTR and answer questions, so where ARE they?

TL;DR: GGG and Runic DO give a f*ck.

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Ragnar119 wrote:

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ongZ wrote:

I did buy TL2, mostly to support the ARPG-scene, but I must admit, that without competition, it's not for me. If I want the non-competitive experience in RPG's I go for Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Elder Scrolls.

Baldurs Gate, Fallout and Elder Scrolls are not arpg games, but as you said RPG games. There is very low number of diablo style isometric arpg games out there. So anyway, thank you for suporting something that you generally don't like, because you make people that like that type of games get developed.

Yea, I know - what i mean is, that ARPG's on single player isn't fun for me - not anymore that is. I need the competition to get hooked, and on single player it will need more depth, which can be found in RPG's.

Path of Exile is an INCREDIBLE game, even if it is heavily inspired by Diablo 2. The game itself, I cannot play due to the awful stat of the minimap. I have bad bad vision, and cannot see dark things very well. But, I also recognize that PoE is in closed beta, and I KNOW it will ONLY get better! I liked TL2's minimap, for the reason that it works visually. As for vlad's post, I can't tell if you were being sincere, but if you were... thanks.

Honestly speaking, people need to forget about all this cheating nonsense, and quit worrying about whether or not people are doing it in TL2 and just play the game. I only care about cheating, if someone starts messing with my characters, to be honest. I prefer to not restrict anyone's play-style.

I'll admit, I have used the console, but only to summon respec potions. When someone adds the capability to the shop keepers, I'll likely disable the console. Why? Because I want the most optimum build as I can possibly get.