Why did you break alt-weapon set auras?

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

I don't understand why people would expect said behavior of aura skill gems when every other skill gem is unusable if they are not in your active slots.

Also, even though Capcom kept combos in SF games, they
still changed what characters could do with combos (Guile became less ridiculous notably).

well this argument has no substance .
unlike auras the other skills , are active skills, you have to press a button to use them each time. and you use them multiple times.

ie ground slam you can use 3 times a second.

you cast an aura once and only once in every instance, after which its just sitting on your hot bar taking up space.

infact you can use every skill but the auras / summons now on an alt weapon with weapon swap.

now in my case , i have more skill gems than i do slots. and this is without taking into account my off hand weapon.

my character has right now about 11 skills not including the swap weapon. before this fix i would just put those aura skills on my alt weapon so that i can press one button activate them and be done with it. now every time i go to a new area , i have to stop.

click on a random skill slot , switch it too an aura , actiavte
click on teh slot again .. switch it too an aura activate
click on the slot AGAIN and switch it to the third aura and activate

and switch it back again.

every fucking time i go too a new instance (which is all the time) i have to waste 20 seconds dicking around with my skill bar because 8 slots is not enough to represent all the skills you can fit on your character.

think about it you can have 12 skills just on your 6l weapon and 6l armor.
and 12 more on your boots gloves and your head

so i am adjusting my stance. if you want to make alt weapons worthless then fine it is the games loss i don't care anymore because it was fun while it lasted, but i better see 24 skill slots

it gets infuriating when you have to all this tedious stuff all the time

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well this argument has no substance .
unlike auras the other skills , are active skills,

They are still attached to the gem system. That is substance enough.

Why not ask for something reasonable instead of asking them to undo a bug, such as letting you cast a gem's spell straight from the socket or a global skill menu that way you can cast all of your auras that way?

alt weapon is such an old design!

In a game like this, where we mostly invest in one or two skills, the alternative weaps should mostly work as plan B's and C's, like a shield for haste crowds or something.

Even as that, it is clunky to swap the sets when death happens so fast in this kind of game (Not to mention the messed up skillbar after doing so).

Even in the build of the week videos there is no mention to secondary sets. All we can do is wait and see what the devs will come up with.

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Saltychipmunk wrote:

now every time i go to a new area , i have to stop.

click on a random skill slot , switch it too an aura , actiavte
click on teh slot again .. switch it too an aura activate
click on the slot AGAIN and switch it to the third aura and activate

and switch it back again.

every fucking time i go too a new instance (which is all the time) i have to waste 20 seconds dicking around with my skill bar because 8 slots is not enough to represent all the skills you can fit on your character.

Eh... seems you really have tried to play with the new aura/swap sytem, have you? Auras travel with you now. You only have to cast them once you start playing. Arguments...

and besides, the alt slot was never meant to use for auras. in fact there are quite crative uses other than that. its not an argument to say that this aura fix rendered the second slot useless...

edit: typo-error from broken smartphone-display ;)

So much hostility on this topic, it's almost daunting to post.

I won't lie, I used the swap method while it lasted. Did it hurt to change back? Of course! You only miss what you once had.

What I've gathered is people say there is no cost by equipping aura gems in alt-set. The cost is there... in mana reserves. Just like it is in your main-set. The difference?

Your gem slot amount. We have up to 24 gem slots, which could easily result in 24 actual skills (not that its likely). But realistically, we have 2-4 skills being supported for end game content, that takes up at about 18 slots, what are you supposed to do with the remaining 6? Unless you super buff every one of your skills, you end up NOT being restricted in your gem slots that weapon swapping provides, but by your actual skill bar.

As the game stands right now, users are almost punished using more then 8 skills (7, if you ever use auto attack). This is not right. Do we only allow creativity only as long as you have 8 (or less) only?

I'm working on my 5th 60+ character and frankly some builds can support 2 primary skills and MANY (10+) other lesser skills. Is this wrong? Or is it wrong because that's all we've gotten up to now?

I think people are loosing perspective about why we're playing/testing... or more importantly that GGG is having such open feedback about the game. So much forum hostility in a game we're helping develop. Good feedback can help bring game changing bugs to life & death... or redeveloped into something we're all happy about.


So constructive criticism about subjects mentioned earlier:

- weapon swapping in general is not necessary. IF it must be implemented, perhaps attach a potential 2nd passive tree to allow support for the weapon/shield of choice? as well as the gems you're leveling on that set? With so many character slots available, its probably just not necessary.

- Auras in general... the skill bar icons while active distracts from the game/art. Also, we already know we have these skills active due to the buff icons on the top-left corner. The game LOOKED more pleasant while auras were swappable.

- we need access to more skill bar slots. Can be as simple as adding more, to making an UI interface to add/reduce how many you need at the time, to as complex as adding in slots exclusively for auras (IE keep spammable skills to a set amount)

sether, yor right about much you said and i for my part apologize if i have been hostile and gone to far (wich i dont think...).

but what pisses me of is the fact, that after every change or nerf of something there are people complaining that _their_ build is useless now (and thats really what most of that complainig is about), without looking at the greater picture. they just rant about the changes and want them to be undone so they can stick with the characters they got used to, wich are so OP or whatsoever. they dont try to adapt and test the new possibilities/restrictions to their limits. instead they are stressing arguments (or even inventing them against the facts) and declare the end of poe as a successfull game (and so on and so on, enough of that stuff in this thread).

this certainly is not the right attitude to take part in a betatest.

ok, so lets be constructive:

- i think the second weaponslot still has its right and had it before. there was a nice thread were someone started to question its need (because of the aura-change), and there were many people starting to post their examples of how they use them (not for auras!). that thread is here: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/51478. Im sad that it got closed although it was only related to the aura-discussion and im sure there would have been many more creative ideas and examples.

as i said there the 2nd slot was implemented so you can play the ranger/duelist as ranged/closecombat hybrids. since you would try to put your attack-gems in the weapons then, it would be necessary that offhand-gems gain experience. ofc this could be "abused" to level other gems, especially on characters that dont use the second slot (exept for leveling gems... and auras, as before (did both myself and am fine with the change)).

perhaps thats not ideal but its necessary if you want to keep the 2nd slot and the possibility for players to use different sets of weapons in them.


- auras... yes, you can have 24 skills in your gear. but in fact this argument is somewhat flawed, because we all know that we would not be able to survive/kill monsters if we dont use supports. even a curse is supported with at least increased duration/area of effect.
and i think its quite clear that the devs dont want us to use 24 skills at the same time without getting into real trouble. there would have been more ui-skillslots if they had (the discussion that there should be a proper skillbar-swap on weapon swap is another thing, imo. you dont get more than 24 gem-slots by swapping (as it was before with auras)).

- so the question is: do we really need more skillslots? or, if auras are such a nasty thing to put there, do we need special aura-slots (and a limit to the number of equipable/usable auras at the same time)? i would say perhaps to the first (though that would mean the decision about what to use and what not isnt that important any more - and i really like that part of the game, especially because there are so many, many possibilities) and definetly no to the last - it reduces possibilities.

its still possible to run many auras, and who wants to do it and is willing to pay the price (all skills cost mana and thats increased by using supports - wich doesnt use up skillslots...) should be (and still is) able to do so. and this price involves using up slots or swapping spells arround (for now. but im sure there are other solutions than simply adding more slots. perhaps all auras on a character are always on and can then be switched off?).

the visual thing with auras is - in my opinion - really no problem or issue, but even that could be redesigned in various ways.

after all, and to repeat it again and again and again.... its BETA! :)

Think about it the other way around. If you started playing this game today, you wouldn't be complaining about any of this. You'd build your character within the game's rules, and grow with them as they leveled, adapting to new changes gradually. And you certainly wouldn't be crying out "let me use auras on inactive weapon swap gear."

I think the reason people are so upset is that they are trying to use a character that has been built very specifically in a completely different way. Trying to adapt into a new set of rules is hard when you've optimised it for another set of rules. Changing a skill combo is very difficult at late game, as the number of crafting orbs required becomes much higher.

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BurnOutBrighter wrote:

Think about it the other way around. If you started playing this game today, you wouldn't be complaining about any of this. You'd build your character within the game's rules, and grow with them as they leveled, adapting to new changes gradually. And you certainly wouldn't be crying out "let me use auras on inactive weapon swap gear."

I think the reason people are so upset is that they are trying to use a character that has been built very specifically in a completely different way. Trying to adapt into a new set of rules is hard when you've optimised it for another set of rules. Changing a skill combo is very difficult at late game, as the number of crafting orbs required becomes much higher.

Actually this is true and GGG should have gave a full repc for every one so that people who was using this method and have a level 60+ toon won't feel useless.
In fact i'm sure they would have made something new with a full respc.

People shouldn't be blaming others blindly because i think that this was somehow poorly implemented from GGG's part.

I know i sound whiny about nerfs, but one of the things i did when i got to the point in D3 was get more skills then i could fit on a hotbar, cast a buff on my self, changed it out for an active, then stared blankly as the effect immediately went off as i changed it. I hated that concept, and LOVED the fact it worked that way on PoE, was actually one of the points that made me wanna keep playing. Now its just as generally restricted as those other games and my desire to play has sort of died due to that "dumbed down" feeling. Course they probably wont put it back, but would be nice, I dunno bout you guys but i cant run 2 active skills, a totem, phase run, a curse, an oh shit teleport/ice wall AND have my four auras on without using the swap set , and possibly have that other move that lets me pretend i can kill ele reflect mobs with my burning/lightning arrow ranger.

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Lordborgman wrote:

I know i sound whiny about nerfs, but one of the things i did when i got to the point in D3 was get more skills then i could fit on a hotbar, cast a buff on my self, changed it out for an active, then stared blankly as the effect immediately went off as i changed it. I hated that concept, and LOVED the fact it worked that way on PoE, was actually one of the points that made me wanna keep playing. Now its just as generally restricted as those other games and my desire to play has sort of died due to that "dumbed down" feeling. Course they probably wont put it back, but would be nice, I dunno bout you guys but i cant run 2 active skills, a totem, phase run, a curse, an oh shit teleport/ice wall AND have my four auras on without using the swap set , and possibly have that other move that lets me pretend i can kill ele reflect mobs with my burning/lightning arrow ranger.

So in other words, you want to use as many skills as you want, while ignoring the specifically designed limits imposed by the skill gem + socket system?

Why didn't you do the same with all the non-aura skills? Because they don't work that way, and need to be your active weapon to work. So why do people have this double standard with auras?

All I mean reading is that "It worked like his before even though I was told it wasn't WAI but my build was designed around it and now its not as strong."

Well I am sorry, there were build designed around other bugs or workarounds. Summoner builds that used different level of zombie gems to have 10 - 20 zombies at once? Should that have not been fixed because some people made builds around it?