Manually trading with people is great fun!

"

Flapdrol wrote:

I am glad they did because after 100 or so Baal runs become boring.

I played D2 for few years, had ~20 high level characters with godly gear and even simple runewords or sets of perfect gems. I never logged into battle.net and rarely repeated any area.

So it leads to conclusion, that:

"

Flapdrol wrote:

In addition, you need something to siphon off orbs from high-level players and help fight inflation.

I don't care about economy, inflation, currency sink and other BSes which for me have no place in aRPG game. I would gladly and instantly transferred my characters to non-ladder league.

I don't care about races and any form of player-to-player competitiveness. I should wrote, that I not interested in races but in fact this season I will took exactly 3 races to gain 15 points for Heatshiver with unique art. And I logged from last race half an hour before end because I get what I planned, it meas 22 lvl and 5 points.

And I would prefer crafting to be currency sink instead of maps being currency black hole. I'm hoarding tons of currency I would prefer to use for crafting gear enabling my characters to took challenges, but I have to use them, to get access to challenges. This is for me, not RPG way.

"

1988288 wrote:

"

BTW I was on every map, what about you?

What's your point?

That I doubt that you visited Shrine with 72 lvl character, so you probably plausing system, you don't take part in.

My main visited all maps, so I was able to beat the game, but still I dislike the way, it is done.

@tmaciak, very appealing arguments. "Mommy, I don't like this and that!". Comedy gold.

"

1988288 wrote:

@tmaciak, very appealing arguments. "Mommy, I don't like this and that!". Comedy gold.

Yes, for me it is comedy, when somebody with 72 lvl character teaches me about maps. When you finish your Docks runs, we will be probably able to continue this, maybe not very interesting but nonetheless funny, discussion.

"

1988288 wrote:

What you lose that way is the excitement that you get for +1, +2. What's even better? A shipyard, the day has been made! I am not saying that it is perfect now, but the mechanic is quite in place.
And, imo, chosen map-system-mechanic is (somewhat limited, but still available for everybody)a really great way of keeping the thrill, the excitement running maps, unlike running them for just free. As Flapdrol pointed out very well - it doesn't give Baal/Mephisto run experience.

Free stuff is not fun.

Ah, but those are apples and oranges man. Mephisto/Baal runs are best compared to farming docks/lunaris, you do it because it's quick and easy. The difference is in D2 you did those for loot and in PoE you farm docks and lunaris to access maps and get loot, you might say boss runs were D2 endgame and Docks/Lunaris are a way to access the endgame in PoE.

Dunno if you played any mods for D2, a lot of them had uber-dungeons or uber-bosses you couldn't clear without serious preparations so you did boss runs for that. You could (mostly) access them anytime you want, the bar was difficulty. And it was worth it, besides great items some uberdungeons and uberbosses even granted you super-skills that you couldn't access any other way.

P.S.
Glad you stuck around to chat some more.

"

tmaciak wrote:

Yes, for me it is comedy, when somebody with 72 lvl character teaches me about maps. When you finish your Docks runs, we will be probably able to continue this, maybe not very interesting but nonetheless funny, discussion.

Have you thought about the fact that this might not be my main account? I don't think you have, as you prefer to jump to conclusions. Also it doesn't negate any of my presented arguments, at least they are not subjective bullcrap "I don't like this!".

@Raics, I've played enough of Median XL / Median Ultimative / Hell Unleashed (imo, most challenging mod), and many other mods. I would be more likely than happy to see something like that in PoE (would love to see whine-threads about Brother Laz uber-boss), but lets be real.. they all were "gear/stat-check" challenges.

As I said before, I like PoE's mapping system ( it should be tuned though ), as it keeps thrill and interest for far longer than accessing areas for free and getting bored of them.

Current limitation is map-drop-RNG, and I find it quite appropriate for this moment, because PoE's map content is not challenging to set it as a main factor of entrance. Am I for change of it? Probably, depends on what kind of change, we're still in Beta, and it's said that the game will have 10 acts, we have a long way to go. I'm sure that we will be seeing improvements on "end-game".

Anyways, I'm out for few hours - off to beach, having pretty wonderful weather for past days.

"

1988288 wrote:

Also it doesn't negate any of my presented arguments, at least they are not subjective bullcrap "I don't like this!".

Your arguments are as well as subjective as mine.

My arguments prove, that there are players who like PoE as a game but dislike it's economy tycoon part and if GGG wants PoE to succeed, should not alienate such players.

Your arguments that economy tycoon is OK. are based on that you and some players find it OK. because you like it. Sorry to say, but it's subjective as hell.

If you are discussing from not-main account, pity on you. I never hid behind false account and never was ashamed by sharing my opinions, whatever they were. So, I'm not interested in hearing more from you or know your true identity.

"

tmaciak wrote:

Your arguments are as well as subjective as mine.

You're pushing your views aggressively, only RIGHT way of making aRPG is YOUR way. No buddy, that's not the way it works.

"

My arguments prove, that there are players who like PoE as a game but dislike it's economy tycoon part and if GGG wants PoE to succeed, should not alienate such players.

Can you present any evidence that this is "economy tycoon"? It more likely seems that anything that has to do with trading is an "AH simulator" to players alike you, and the problem isn't in the game itself, but in people with distorted perception of this mechanic.

GGG is not alienating those players, players them themselves are willfully restricting a part of the multiplayer-experience, which is inter-player trading. And then they are complaining that they are having it harder vs the players who do engage in trading their acquired items.

"

Your arguments that economy tycoon is OK. are based on that you and some players find it OK. because you like it. Sorry to say, but it's subjective as hell.

Can you quote the part where I said that "economy tycoon" is ok, or that I like it? I'm just arguing against your prejudiced view on the trading mechanic.

I see trading as part in multiplayer games, especially if you have no substantial impact on getting items through killing monsters. Pieces that you sell will be useful for somebody else, and someone else's items will be useful for you. That is YOUR choice to ignore this part of the game and you have no right to complain about it, and what's even more laughable is that you ignore it, because you don't like it.. a brilliant argument indeed.

"

If you are discussing from not-main account, pity on you. I never hid behind false account and never was ashamed by sharing my opinions, whatever they were. So, I'm not interested in hearing more from you or know your true identity.

Why do you again have to assume, imply or try to insult me in any way? Why do you feel the need to attack my character? Please, keep your insecurities to yourself, I have no interest in dealing with a person, who can't see past his childish ego.

Of what I would be ashamed? That some guy on the internet (who obviously does not understand how to carry out a civilized, grown-up discussion, who can't manage his own behavior by not trying to insult someone, because they disagree on a subject) might think that I'm wrong on something? I honestly don't give a crap, but that just seems like an ad hominem remark from you, I do not care for who you are in person, I do not care what kind of person you are, all I care is your presented arguments. Argue the argument, end of the story.

And to give you a slight enlightenment of why this isn't my main account - it just happened to rush my other als, as it's quite effective. And I ended up with that this account carries my 36~(?) stash pages and my main MF character.

"

1988288 wrote:

I see trading as part in multiplayer games, especially if you have no substantial impact on getting items through killing monsters.

Unfortunately, it is not true, because it is quite visible, that drops rates are tuned under assumption, that ppls do trade. So it has substantial influence on getting items through killing monsters.

"

1988288 wrote:

Of what I would be ashamed? That some guy on the internet (who obviously does not understand how to carry out a civilized, grown-up discussion, who can't manage his own behavior by not trying to insult someone, because they disagree on a subject) might think that I'm wrong on something?

You made me smile :) Quite nice example of retorsio argumenti technique we have here.

But to be clear, I treat my answers as statements and are in most in fact indirected. I'm aware that you will be unable to accept my arguments, but I still hope, that it will be read by designers and maybe some day some of my complaints will be taken into consideration. Considering this, I don't really care if you are insulting me or not and I'm not going to report it.

"

tmaciak wrote:

You made me smile :) Quite nice example of retorsio argumenti technique we have here.

You are pulling things out of thin air, you are basically insulting me, and now I'm the bad guy? Whoah, whoah, hold it there, buddy. I am not turning argument against you in a vile way, I am just underlining atrocities you've committed in this thread and are unaware of them. I do not discuss to gain any ego gratification from "proving my point" or "defeating someone in an argument", I'm intellectually beyond that.

"

I don't really care if you are insulting me or not and I'm not going to report it.

Where's any indication of me having a vicious intent of insulting your or someone else's persona? Can you cut with the assumptions and quote something within its context which clearly exposes me? I don't think you can, because there isn't one.

This is way off-topic. Most likely I'm done with you.

Oke i just got arround another great example of how great trading is.

person x is selling maps on forum.

me PM him a offer to buy out all maps. Ofcourse my offer is a little low. its the start with how you trade.

him PM me back. Your dump.

ya great... my response.

ya thanks was nice trading with you. you didnt ask a price i make an offer. you call me dump. ill never trade with you again. who is the dump person now? I could pay more it was a opening offer. if only you had responded with something useful.