Why most of 'Unique' items suck so hard?

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UnderOmerta wrote:

It appears you and I have different definitions of 'BiS.' See, I think the 'perfect' version of your build can include a unique without the unique necessarily being "BiS". For example, a CI character is very likely going to have dream fragments in his perfect endgame build, but that doesn't mean I feel dream fragments is a BiS unique because the individual power scaling of the item isn't over the top. Rather it's a unique that has a very powerful function that players are willing to dedicate a slot for it. Best-in-Slot for me has the meaning that the item is unfairly balanced and bad for the game.

There should be MORE uniques out there that perform a rare or potentially powerful function. For example, would Shavronne's be as ridiculously priced as it is now if there was another way to get "chaos damage does not bypass energy shield", even if that item had a significant drawback? I don't think so.

I agree with that 100%.
I probably used the end-game term in a too exaggerated way in my first post and thats one of the reasons we´re arguing.

(i kinda had to check what was the cause of us being on the opposite sides of this argument being i share your view on the above)

The thing i disagreed with you was (and is) "Players that enjoy endgame find only a handful of usable uniques". I think majority of uniques are usable for a certain purpose/build. Maybe we´ll agree to disagree? =) But yes, i´m not a player that enjoys end-endgame, so maybe i´ll stop here =)



Btw: Alpha howl is a great unique just like you said. But it is less than perfect at the moment because its properties can be exploited (+2 to auras, 8% reduced mana reservation for free). Without those exploits, it is great example of how uniques should be.

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Ola wrote:

I agree with that 100%.
I probably used the end-game term in a too exaggerated way in my first post and thats one of the reasons we´re arguing.

(i kinda had to check what was the cause of us being on the opposite sides of this argument being i share your view on the above)

The thing i disagreed with you was (and is) "Players that enjoy endgame find only a handful of usable uniques". I think majority of uniques are usable for a certain purpose/build. Maybe we´ll agree to disagree? =) But yes, i´m not a player that enjoys end-endgame, so maybe i´ll stop here =)



Btw: Alpha howl is a great unique just like you said. But it is less than perfect at the moment because its properties can be exploited (+2 to auras, 8% reduced mana reservation for free). Without those exploits, it is great example of how uniques should be.

Yeah, it was definitely more of a semantics argument than a spirit one. I think we agree on 90% of it.

Are you referring to using Alpha's Howl to cast auras for the 8% less reservation and then taking it off? Because yeah, that's a bit exploitative. But for players that actually use it as their primary helm I don't think the +auras or reduced reservation is that exploitative at all. They're giving up some potential evasion/armor, life, and a lot of res that you can find a really good endgame helmet. Not to mention that ES/CI characters would almost certainly not want to use it because it has no ES.

It's definitely a well designed 'endgame' unique though, and if there were more uniques of its ilk I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. The problem with the system now is that certain uniques are so game-changing (and in many ways, game-breaking) that their presence distorts the economy and dictates the goals of players. Shavronne's and Kaom's are the clear offenders.

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Ola wrote:

I think majority of uniques are usable for a certain purpose/build.

You can train on this ones



What for are they?

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UnderOmerta wrote:

But for players that actually use it as their primary helm I don't think the +auras or reduced reservation is that exploitative at all.

It's definitely a well designed 'endgame' unique though, and if there were more uniques of its ilk I wouldn't have a problem with it at all. The problem with the system now is that certain uniques are so game-changing (and in many ways, game-breaking) that their presence distorts the economy and dictates the goals of players. Shavronne's and Kaom's are the clear offenders.

Alpha howl is just like it should be if you actually wear it.

And yes. I personally feel like shavronnes should go to a lower level base item and kaoms should give around +500 healt. Two awful uniques at their current state.

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dima_dunedin wrote:

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Ola wrote:

I think majority of uniques are usable for a certain purpose/build.

You can train on this ones

What for are they?

Oh you started with the easy ones.

I´ll take a wild guess and say soul mantle is used for totem builds, only way to get three (7-link!) totems in the game.

And infernal mantle for a high crit fire build (chaos conversion --> less reflect, good ES, crit chance.). Blood magic caster comes to mind, that would probably go around the downside.

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Ola wrote:

I´ll take a wild guess and say soul mantle is used for totem builds, only way to get three (7-link!) totems in the game.

And infernal mantle for a high crit fire build (chaos conversion --> less reflect, good ES, crit chance.). Blood magic caster comes to mind, that would probably go around the downside.

You always misses negative mods. Average PoE unique have some not too powerful pros and enormous cons, which render it useless

You can benefit from a third totem a bit, but you will be always under some lvl 20 curse (lvl 18 spell totem won't last long). Add horrible (for endgame) ES and you will get another useless unique

With second one you will get almost always double damage from any spell. 100% increase crits will increase your DPS maybe by 10-15%, that is it. Again, add meh ES on top of this disaster - useless

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dima_dunedin wrote:

What for are they?

With Soul Mantle I can run 66lvl maps even faster. Yaay!!!

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dima_dunedin wrote:

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Ola wrote:

I´ll take a wild guess and say soul mantle is used for totem builds, only way to get three (7-link!) totems in the game.

And infernal mantle for a high crit fire build (chaos conversion --> less reflect, good ES, crit chance.). Blood magic caster comes to mind, that would probably go around the downside.

You always misses negative mods. Average PoE unique have some not too powerful pros and enormous cons, which render it useless

You can benefit from a third totem a bit, but you will be always under some lvl 20 curse (lvl 18 spell totem won't last long). Add horrible (for endgame) ES and you will get another useless unique

With second one you will get almost always double damage from any spell. 100% increase crits will increase your DPS maybe by 10-15%, that is it. Again, add meh ES on top of this disaster - useless

You know that there are flasks (of warding... I forget) which let you remove curses, don't you?
I don't follow your calculation on critical hits and damage. Have you considered that critical hits with elemental damage also cause status ailments which can be useful?

And yes, of course there are downsides - else theśe things would be too good. I mean, three (!) totems is HUGE, Fire converted to Chaos is also VERY nice.

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dima_dunedin wrote:

You can benefit from a third totem a bit, but you will be always under some lvl 20 curse (lvl 18 spell totem won't last long). Add horrible (for endgame) ES and you will get another useless unique

The benefit from 3rd totem is not "a bit". It´s 50% MORE damage. (2 totems dealing 2x damage --> 3 totems dealing 3x damage). AND you get to slap on a extra support gem. How about blind on your spork? --> everything perma-blinded. How about that for defence?

Always under lvl 20 curse... You do know about the flask affix that gives curse immunity?
"oh no!! im cursed with lvl 20 warlords mark, or lvl 20 flammability in a area with no fire mobs!!" Not all curses have that much of an effect. Temp chains --> pop a flask. Ele weakness --> pop a flask (if you dont have the resists.), etc.

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dima_dunedin wrote:

With second one you will get almost always double damage from any spell. 100% increase crits will increase your DPS maybe by 10-15%, that is it. Again, add meh ES on top of this disaster - useless

1st: if you have a unique on you that has "take extra damage when on low mana", and you are "almost always" on low mana, you´re doing it wrong. L2p in that case.
Like I said, for example blood magic caster could (most likely) care less about that downside.

get high enough crit multiplier and that 100% global crit chance will make an effect on your dps. And dont forget that chaos conversion. That is a huge benefit.



You seem to be one of those people who can´t think for a second to see, that for every downside there is a workaround. You don´t just slap one of these uniques on and not alter your playstyle/build/items. You build knowing you´ll use that unique.

P.s. Just out of curiosity, what build are you using currently?

And also, regarding one of your previous post: carnage heart does not take a quarter of your life/ES away. Reduced vs. less, there´s a difference.

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Ola wrote:

The benefit from 3rd totem is not "a bit". It´s 50% MORE damage. (2 totems dealing 2x damage --> 3 totems dealing 3x damage).

You don't need more damage. Two totems do enough damage

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Ola wrote:

Always under lvl 20 curse... You do know about the flask affix that gives curse immunity?
"oh no!! im cursed with lvl 20 warlords mark, or lvl 20 flammability in a area with no fire mobs!!"

Flask last 3 seconds. And your lvl 18 spell totem will die like every 3 seconds on 70+ maps. Does it occured to you that you will get the most unfortune curse as often as warlords mark? And lvl 20 curse is pretty bad, it is not your average necro curse

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Ola wrote:

1st: if you have a unique on you that has "take extra damage when on low mana", and you are "almost always" on low mana, you´re doing it wrong.

Maybe you tell me, how caster could be not at low mana, with three auras and casting spells/totems every two seconds?

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Ola wrote:

get high enough crit multiplier and that 100% global crit chance will make an effect on your dps.

As dual spork who has a lot of points in crits I can tell you that 100% crit chance won't make a big difference. Not worth getting double damage and using 400 ES chest

And don't forget that to use that uniques you should first at least 5L them. Invest a lot of currency