GGG: Is the Orb of Alchemy vendor recipe working as intended?

Hungryneko I've 14 tabs (I use 7 of them for usless rare stashing), selling all items bigger than 4 squares and only using the extension when I'm almost out of space I get around 2-5 alchs from it. And it takes some time, getting 7 tabs full of rares not keeping the biggest one is not something you are able to do in a couple of hours.

I usually get alchs faster selling item quantity/quality for alchs shard before getting a pair of rare with matching name.

57 pairs of matching rares to me seems a bit much. You might get a better conversion rate with 40 tabs and if you only kept items of the same type, but that would take a LOOONG time.

Pay to Win is when the advantage you have is so much bigger or not obtainable without paying for it.

Pay for convenience is something that will help you doing something in a easyer way/faster than other people.

Getting more free accounts is not that hard, and if you keep your accounts organised (Weapons-Mule/Armor-Mule/Shield-Mule/Pants-Mule/FishingGear-Mule/ecc...) you can use other accounts instead of more tabs without many problems.

The fact that you don't want to is another matter compleatly. Not everyone who has bought a bigger pack did it to get more stashes for the rare matching game.I could buy way more than 15 stash tab total with my golden pack, but I want to wait for the cosmetic stuff when OB come out. So every couple of days when my stash tabs gets full I'll empty some of the larger items.

Also to do that you have to organize your stashes, check for the matching items and stop everytime you have a full inventory and go back to town because you collect all the rares that you find. So it will slow down your gameplay.

I really hate the idea of experience buffs (because they become a money-sink) but if you want to compare it those kind of buffs are convenience in a game where there is a level cap and that level cap is not that hard to get. It's just a question of I can pay x dollars to get there in 5 days or doing for free in 7 days. In a game like POE an experience buff is a different kind of monster since there is not a "real" level cap.

If you don't want ANY kind of advantage you will hate also the public stash tabs (He can have an easy public stash tab while I have to open a forum post and keep it updated) or any kind of convenience item.

What about ladders with orb prices ?
I can't partecipate in a lot of ladder races because I don't have that much time, and those who do they get a lot of orbs from it. They are in an advantage over me. To win the 2 week ladder hardcore races you had to play alot. I don't have that kind of time, and the winners got a unique map that they could use in my same league. I think GGG made a ladder to win LTW game and I don't like it.

I don't think this reciepe is that flawed to warrant such a big concern. Most of the people that are worrying about it is because they are not using it. If it was giving people an advantage GGG could do a simple check and see in the ladders if the winner are using this reciepe or if there are major differences between people that do use it and the one that don't.

They have better tools to tell if is really that much of an advantage, and if Chris came here and sayd: "Using that reciepe with the chrome extension was giving a hughe advantage to people."

I'll agree with any decision they make, but I hope is not because people that are not using it and don't know what they are talking about are crying about it. The developers I think knows the chance of dropping two rare item with the same name and the chane of dropping an alch and they can adjust it so that it's an advantage still (because you also waste time organizing you tabs and keep using portal to bring all the trash rares to town) but a fair one.


Edit: Sorry for the long incoherent rambling.

TL;DR version:
I use it, it's helpful, but I don't think is that big of an advantage. I get alch selling item for alch shard before finding a matching rare.
Using multiple accounts is not that hard.
I belive that GGG will make the right call, they know the chances of dropping two rare with the same name and the chances of alchs and they can adjust to be an advantage but a fair one.

I think that stashing items and trying to match them is ridiculous waste of time(This might change if there was some autodetect mod). One would have been much better just go on killing mobs and gain more drops rather than spending time matching names.

I think that alchemy orbs recipies are ok because it actually works sometimes. Im not really happy about some more difficult to achieve onces as i have literally never gotten some of them and i have played this game a ton (2 chars about L75)

I feel i should weigh in here as i fully... abuse (i guess?) this feature.

I have 30 stash tabs and i store all rares.

Once you fill this, and empty it out (which will be about 15-25 alcs usually) as much as you can, you start to get a seriously large amount of alcs. As it gets to the point where most of the rares you bring in already have a match.

I played moderately actively over the past few days and i think i made around 50-60 alcs and 8 or 9 regals.

I'd be interested to know peoples thoughts on that, as it currently seems to me to be a mechanic which has the potential to cause massive inflation.

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TEBird wrote:

You are going to eventually find that an argument can be made that ANYTHING is pay to win. I.E. even graphics (Well his graphics are a lot more interesting and that motivates him to play longer...so he can outgrind me...that is pay to win!")

This is the first, and almost certainly last time I think I'll see this argument made - it's that absurd. If people need a dress up barbie mode to keep interested then the game has far more severe problems than an alchemy recipe. Perhaps I can suggest to your unmotivated player that they purchase a colouring in book and some crayons. (I have nothing against cosmetic items, I will purchase a few to support GGG - the argument that not having them is enough to stop people playing just seems insane to me)

I'm just going to reiterate what I said earlier.

Pay GGG money ------> Get alchemy orbs faster than someone who didn't

Can ANYBODY please explain to me how that statement is untrue? If nobody can do that then this mechanic is indisputably supportive of "pay2win" and either GGG need to change their stance or alter this recipe.

Handling multiple accounts will probably be easier after the new browser based trading system is implemented.

There won't be much difference between handling one account with 28 tabs and 7 accounts with 4 tabs.

Additionally, as mentioned here before, the time spent with going back to town to identify and sort things is better spent by grinding and getting the orbs as normal drops ingame.

so, having additional stash tabs is no pay to win but a convinience for players who like to play these type of games in "collectors mode".

I think most of us aren't in disagreement here in terms of how the system works and the pros and cons. We're largely debating semantics and whether the pros outweigh the cons.

I continue to trust Chris and the team to make the difficult decision(s) that balance the various constituencies on this topic.

Best of luck guys, I'll be playing and paying either way.

Petrov.

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Additionally, as mentioned here before, the time spent with going back to town to identify and sort things is better spent by grinding and getting the orbs as normal drops ingame.

I do not feel this is correct. It takes very little time to go back to town and stash things. And it only takes ~15 minutes to go through the chrome extension and find everything.

I want a list of people who use mule accounts for the sole purpose of using the 4 free stash tabs, and then explain briefly how you transfer between accounts.

I'm willing to bet that none of you do.

Why? Because having stash tabs is FAR MORE CONVENIENT than utilizing multiple accounts. And convenience, is the foundation to any pay2win schemes. Wanna level up faster? Buy this membership and double your EXP rate. Wanna get better loot? Buy this membership and increase loot rarity. Wanna get this cool weapon that you can't get ingame? Buy it here. And so and so forth, you get the point. (I'm using dramatic examples here.)

Look, it's not like I or others are actively bashing GGG that extra stash tabs is "OMGISHSOPAY2WIN." We're, or at least I am, simply stating the fact that it IS pay2win regardless of the degree so long as it provides a player with an advantage over others utilzing real money purchases. I have 10 stash tabs, and even though I don't hardcore farm and trade and loot, I've used up about 7 pages of it and I would never give it up to trade with another account on another computer because it would be a friggin hassle.

And consider this. When I first started, I thought alch orbs were the rarest thing ever, next to the chaos orb. For my needs, they were what I wanted. Next thing I know, a GCP = 7 alch orbs, and I'm WTF? I barely have 10 of these orbs and a single GCP costs 7 orbs of alch? Whaaat?

And then my naivety disappeared as I began to learn the subtle tricks and tactics people use to increase their wealth. These recipes have also added to my repetoire of wealth increasing, and the more stash tabs I have, the better for me to get orbs of alch to be able to trade with other players.

And then the realization hit: orbs of alch are considered commonplace. For GCPs to be worth seven of these hard earned (read: looting and getting alch shards by vendoring) orbs of alch, there must be a dilution effect that is devaluing the value of orbs of alch. And I can't think of any other method other than players hoarding tons of rare items in their 10+ tabs of stash and landing jackpot matches. This recipe in conjunction with extra stash tabs, has definitely caused the devaluing of orbs of alch the way I see it. What was supposed to be a rare item isn't quite so rare anymore.

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cronus wrote:

Additionally, as mentioned here before, the time spent with going back to town to identify and sort things is better spent by grinding and getting the orbs as normal drops ingame.

the FACT that there are many people find that it is much easier to get alchemy by recipe indicate that "grinding and getting the orbs as normal drops ingame" is not as effective

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RavenousRaven wrote:

I have 30 stash tabs and i store all rares.

Once you fill this, and empty it out (which will be about 15-25 alcs usually) as much as you can, you start to get a seriously large amount of alcs. As it gets to the point where most of the rares you bring in already have a match.

I played moderately actively over the past few days and i think i made around 50-60 alcs and 8 or 9 regals.

I'd be interested to know peoples thoughts on that, as it currently seems to me to be a mechanic which has the potential to cause massive inflation.

Here we have real people who exploit the system and concern about it. Who of you guy haven't actually try it and say it is not abusive?

Your arguments still don't change the fact that you are making out alchs to be some great item, when they are really only used mostly by lower level toons. It is probably as effective to save your good rares to gear up your ALTs, but instead ggg offered you an alternative.

Read back on my previous posts if you need more clarification on this. Alchs will always be 7:1 gcp no matter how easy or hard they are to get with recipes, because that is about as far as their usefulness extends without also having the same amount in scouring orbs.