|
This post gives has no substance, no proof, the only explanation I can give myself for this post is ego, but I could be wrong, anyway, it's your opinion, I think the game is as hard as you want, you can add quality to end-game maps and make them as hard or easy as you want.
PS: I find posts like these lame, show-off.
|
Posted bySilverGunZon Aug 1, 2012, 1:25:36 PM
|
"
You're not just talking about difficulty, but also learning curve, which is artificially inflating the difficulty at normal. This is an issue with the learning curve, not with the relative difficulty. Start a new character, and you may find that you can snooze through normal with ease.
That being said, regardless of the cause I think the end effect you experience is a valid point. All the great systems of this game also create a pretty steep barrier to entry. But given a lot of the feedback fall in the nature of 'great game if you can get past the first few hours/levels' I'd suspect that tutorial/help will eventually become a priority as they progress through the beta.
i agree with your reasons, learning how each monster attacks for the first time makes normal difficult for beginners.
but to further that, i hypothesis that difficulties after normal is easier for any char that starts normal without outside help (ie gear / gems from your stash). after said char passes normal they'll have gear/ gems/ build and thus the rest of the game is easier than starting out new in normal.
which is obvious, ie, if i were to make a lvl 1 and give them lots of gear, normal is going to be easy. however that is not my point.
my point is that normal is harder for a new char than the difficulties following normal. (except for a2 merciless boss)
|
Posted byrobman_robon Aug 1, 2012, 1:27:11 PM
|
"
Marauder can get a bit insane when it comes to survivability.
I found everything fairly easy with him, but my ranger is still having issues with the Act 1 boss right now (only level 14)....at the same level, my Marauder straight up tanked the SIren without even flinching.
If you still find it too easy, make it harder on YOURSELF on purpose...it adds spice and its fun to do so.
Its like playing Mario Bros without getting a mushroom, little mario only. Sometimes you have to impose your own limits.
If you are ranged fighting you need to get into melee. I'm pretty positive this is the mechanic...not to get out of melee range in phase 1 and less in phase 2.
Last edited by polyoddity on Aug 1, 2012, 1:53:03 PM
|
Posted bypolyoddityon Aug 1, 2012, 1:52:34 PM
|
"
"
Disclaimer: I guess before I make a statement that the difficulty system is flawed, I should admit that maybe it's just too easy on my particular build. I've only taken one character through to merciless so far, a staff wielding, ele damage, lightning striking templar with as much armor/life/life regen as I can muster. So maybe it's just my build. I know that Cruel was a bit more difficult on my witch, my shadow is handling cruel pretty easily though.
What's your DPS in that build? How efficient at farming is it? Not dying is not as important as farming efficiency in default league.
That doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion.
|
Posted byBones40on Aug 1, 2012, 2:05:46 PM
|
|
What sort of things would you like to see that would make it harder?
How easy or hard the game is is a difficult call to make. Diablo 3 makes the game "hard" by putting players in situations where they die almost unavoidably, and by scaling monster damage up to insane values. This makes a lot of the game to me less fun because it relies on you simply avoiding damage and makes a lot of builds that expect to to be up close and personal a lot less viable.
Likewise, there are things you can do in D3 to mitigate the difficulty, such as getting the right skills and getting enough Life on Hit so that as a barbarian for instance you can just whirlwind through everything and keep yourself afloat. This is detrimental to the diversity of builds though, and doesn't really add "challenge" except for the challenge of getting that gear and using the right build.
PoE doesn't use the system of "Make things extremely threatening to players who max defense" because if they did, the game would force you to max defense to even stand a chance, and you'd lose a lot of potential builds. However, that means that if you stack defenses, you get a lot of buffer and have a difficult time dying. You also kill considerably slower than someone who does otherwise.
One of the difficulties I enjoy about that system is that you can tailor the difficulty to your own preference. You can drop some life nodes as you find the game is too easy and work back towards damage nodes for faster killing. Eventually you start working on some of the maps with some of the more challenging mods, and eventually the defenses that were good enough before are starting to be challenged.
I much prefer that to a system where the regular content is designed to easily kill someone who has built their templar with as much armor/life/life regen as they can muster. Because if that is the case, then it will totally ruin anyone who tries to make a somewhat offensive build.
You basically chose "easy" difficulty when you decided on that build, and then complained the game was too easy.
|
Posted byzeidrichon Aug 1, 2012, 2:30:47 PM
|
"
What sort of things would you like to see that would make it harder?
How easy or hard the game is is a difficult call to make. Diablo 3 makes the game "hard" by putting players in situations where they die almost unavoidably, and by scaling monster damage up to insane values. This makes a lot of the game to me less fun because it relies on you simply avoiding damage and makes a lot of builds that expect to to be up close and personal a lot less viable.
Likewise, there are things you can do in D3 to mitigate the difficulty, such as getting the right skills and getting enough Life on Hit so that as a barbarian for instance you can just whirlwind through everything and keep yourself afloat. This is detrimental to the diversity of builds though, and doesn't really add "challenge" except for the challenge of getting that gear and using the right build.
PoE doesn't use the system of "Make things extremely threatening to players who max defense" because if they did, the game would force you to max defense to even stand a chance, and you'd lose a lot of potential builds. However, that means that if you stack defenses, you get a lot of buffer and have a difficult time dying. You also kill considerably slower than someone who does otherwise.
One of the difficulties I enjoy about that system is that you can tailor the difficulty to your own preference. You can drop some life nodes as you find the game is too easy and work back towards damage nodes for faster killing. Eventually you start working on some of the maps with some of the more challenging mods, and eventually the defenses that were good enough before are starting to be challenged.
I much prefer that to a system where the regular content is designed to easily kill someone who has built their templar with as much armor/life/life regen as they can muster. Because if that is the case, then it will totally ruin anyone who tries to make a somewhat offensive build.
You basically chose "easy" difficulty when you decided on that build, and then complained the game was too easy.
I've got plenty of damage, it's not extreme, but it gets the job done quick enough. I didn't plan the build out before hand, I just kind of winged it. Here's my build right now.
I don't have great equipment. Here's probably my best pieces.
Unavailable
Unavailable
And yet I still found merciless to be quite easy for the most part. I've died quite a few times, but a lot of those were from fighting bosses for the first time, not knowing what gear/resists/tactics to use. I don't have a problem with most boss encounters, there'll all fairly well done with the exception of the fella on the beach. It's the mob packs that, for the most part, feel a bit easy.
I don't know, I just expected that to get through merciless I would need to farm a bit, grind a bit, trade a bit...I didn't need to do that at all.
I think the suggestion of increasing mob speed rating and ability to attack a moving target would go a long way to making it feel more dangerous without just slapping insane damage and hp numbers on them. In fact, Terraces was maybe the most fun area of the game for me because of the speed of the mob packs and the sheer numbers in each mob pack. The forest at the beginning of act 2 with those monkeys too. Alira's suicide bomber mobs.
Am I the only one that feels those areas feel more dangerous and are more fun?
edit: By the way, I'm not complaining, necessarily, about the difficulty being easy. I was just supporting the OP in thinking that something is off because normal felt more dangerous than merciless.
Last edited by Bones40 on Aug 1, 2012, 3:09:05 PM
Some items in this post are currently unavailable.
|
Posted byBones40on Aug 1, 2012, 3:04:13 PM
|
"
What sort of things would you like to see that would make it harder?
How easy or hard the game is is a difficult call to make. Diablo 3 makes the game "hard" by putting players in situations where they die almost unavoidably, and by scaling monster damage up to insane values. This makes a lot of the game to me less fun because it relies on you simply avoiding damage and makes a lot of builds that expect to to be up close and personal a lot less viable.
Likewise, there are things you can do in D3 to mitigate the difficulty, such as getting the right skills and getting enough Life on Hit so that as a barbarian for instance you can just whirlwind through everything and keep yourself afloat. This is detrimental to the diversity of builds though, and doesn't really add "challenge" except for the challenge of getting that gear and using the right build.
PoE doesn't use the system of "Make things extremely threatening to players who max defense" because if they did, the game would force you to max defense to even stand a chance, and you'd lose a lot of potential builds. However, that means that if you stack defenses, you get a lot of buffer and have a difficult time dying. You also kill considerably slower than someone who does otherwise.
One of the difficulties I enjoy about that system is that you can tailor the difficulty to your own preference. You can drop some life nodes as you find the game is too easy and work back towards damage nodes for faster killing. Eventually you start working on some of the maps with some of the more challenging mods, and eventually the defenses that were good enough before are starting to be challenged.
I much prefer that to a system where the regular content is designed to easily kill someone who has built their templar with as much armor/life/life regen as they can muster. Because if that is the case, then it will totally ruin anyone who tries to make a somewhat offensive build.
You basically chose "easy" difficulty when you decided on that build, and then complained the game was too easy.
To defend D3, some people just aren't up for the grind. Inferno was not intended to be super easy. Level 60 content starts at act 3 in Hell and if you can't progress in Inferno it's because you skipped gearing for it.
|
Posted bypolyoddityon Aug 1, 2012, 3:04:29 PM
|
"
I think the game is too easy.
The hardest difficulty was normal mode to me. Learning things for the first time. Finding gear.
Cruel was easier, less deaths. It was about this time I had a clear build I wanted to follow.
Ruthless was even easier then cruel, even less deaths. Around this time I had a chance to respec my char completely, the respec helped my focus my build a little and improved my char.
Merciless was on par or a little easier than Ruthless.
The only reasonable opponent in Merciless was a2 boss.
I was semi active in trades. I did not trade for all my gear, maybe about half of it found, half traded for.
I think the game should be harder.
Hmm here is the problem, game is too hard for you, you died. Try to beat it again, don't die this time, POE won the game, you clearly haven't beaten it yet.
|
Posted bySEOINAGEon Aug 1, 2012, 3:12:28 PM
|
"
"
"
Disclaimer: I guess before I make a statement that the difficulty system is flawed, I should admit that maybe it's just too easy on my particular build. I've only taken one character through to merciless so far, a staff wielding, ele damage, lightning striking templar with as much armor/life/life regen as I can muster. So maybe it's just my build. I know that Cruel was a bit more difficult on my witch, my shadow is handling cruel pretty easily though.
What's your DPS in that build? How efficient at farming is it? Not dying is not as important as farming efficiency in default league.
That doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion.
It does though. Killing all the enemies in the game is not the endgame. PvP and efficient farming to get the best gear is the endgame.
In any case, I do kind of agree, for some builds the game is quite easy. Another example is frost witch, you can destroy Merc and most maps with pretty bad gear. I don't know if it's 'too easy'. Maybe it shouldn't be this easy at this stage in the gear economy, since most people's gear is relatively terrible to what gear will be at 6 months after release.
|
Posted byaimlessgunon Aug 1, 2012, 3:33:52 PMAlpha Member
|
|
Yup, PvP is the end game. Although, higher level has their advantages.
Leveling a build that is PvP focus can be more challenging.
|
Posted bymarkshiuon Aug 1, 2012, 3:43:01 PM
|
