Well just so you know i hold a degree in mathematics so yes i understand all of that. however, where did you get 'Net damage is something like = Raw damage^2 / (raw damage+armor/12)'? i have never seen this before. let alone how much dps mobs have.
math is great, but without knowing the equations that the game uses i dont think you can accurately say much. Im not saying that melee is fixed nor that it is still broken. Simply that i dont understand all the bashing without taking the time to try and figure out if what ggg did was enough.
Its higschool level math at best, so a degree certainly isn't needed =P
At any rate, after playing my facebreaker witch (high mitigation and restoration with aegis aurora, crap buffer but great resists/armor) for a couple of hours after the patch launched, i can most certainly say that for trash, armor works just fine (just like it did prepatch, so meh)
You absolutely have to have immortal call for rohas and bosses tho. 30k armor does absolutely nothing against those. Even with a crapload of endurance charges. Its also worth noting, that i dont perform any better than i did prepatch, even against trash, even tho the build im talking about pretty much capitalized on all of the positive changes the patch made (marginal impact on buffer, since the build doesnt try to capitalize on it)
This is entirely subjective, not based on some scientific test or anything. But for me the patch did absolutely jack shit, for mitigation on my mitigation build.
My damage increased by truckloads tho, not that i needed it.
edit: on the "how much dps mobs have", i never claimed to have that number, we were doing that as a thought experiment on a mob that would do 5k raw damage in a hit. Damage per second actually cant be used at all, since you have to differentiate between several small hits (the forte` of armor) and big slow ones (the stuff everyone gets killed by).
Last edited by Cataca#6988 on Jun 6, 2013, 4:04:15 PM
WOW! lots of good feed back.
Was so forward to making a melee build for the new league. Don't think I want to make a "yawn" dual totem build, put me to sleep. POE is still path of "range"
My melee is doing much better. You have to look beyond the numbers. Since monster damage is nerfed armor % is higher. My DPS increased by 30% and my survivabillity is better even though I lost some Life and armor.
^ This.
Okay, my only real melee character is a lvl 49 Marauder with a 2-handed axe. I'm half way through Cruel Act II and running about 1.3K Armor, 1.3k Life, Ele Resist all above 65% and Heavy Strike at 1150 DPS.
My Life Regen dropped 2 points since the Patch and my total Life dropped by by less than 80. Resistances all dropped a couple of %. Overall DPS went up (some a lot) while Armor dropped a bit. Life Leach and Life on Hit seem to be on par.
My point is, Nastakanoth is right. These are only numbers. In actual play, I definitely see a big improvement on survivability. I ran a couple of areas and was surprised at the difference. Elemental Damage Skeletons are a lot less scary than they used to be. My Life Regen is able to deal with 2 Spider Viper Strikes. Regen significantly reduces the speed at which I loose Life from Viper Strike, even with slightly less Regen.
Maybe I'll see it differently when I gain another 5 or 10 levels with this Marauder, but for now, I'm rather pleased with the changes.
"
torturo wrote:
You don't have enough experience.Pass 70 and we can discuss about that.
If we have to throw examples at our faces,get this : duelist close to 80,12k armor without a flask,max resists and creeps just beat shit out of me.It was a masochism before the patch,now with HP cuts it's just unplayable.
"Balances","buffs",my ass.
It's people like this that ruin the test. Past 70? Why are we even talking when you're that far beyond the content wall and haven't restarted your character and gone back to real testing?
All I hear when I come to the forums is how hard it is to "level" on maps once you pass 65, or how bad the drops are, or how expensive it is to mod maps to be useful past 70 . . . or now how bad the balance is past 70.
Well lets talk truth here . . . the game is six months from release. We are missing a lot of content. Part of act three isn't out yet. All of act four hasn't been released yet. How do you talk balance when you have no CLUE what your talking about for that level of content?
What are you judging this supposed balance against? Maps that are random side quest content? How do you know what enemies you should be facing at seventy? How do you know what gear you should be seeing drop that far beyond the content wall?
Sure we can get some ok data from testing builds to see what the content should be balanced around, in the future, maybe . . . but these guys seem to think that they are actually the point of the game right now.
It's simply silly. Guys like this make me wish GGG would simply cap the game at 65 and slowly raise it as content actually gets out to support those higher levels. I'm tired of hearing it. It's pointless.
Why doesn't The_Paw have enough experience? He's 80% through the actual supported content. We don't know what his previous ARPG experience is. Is he coming from D2, from Titan Quest, From Twilight, from Van Helsing (just released), what is his background?
The theme of this guys troll post is that unless you're dumb enough to level a character beyond the content wall, knowing full well that it isn't supported, and that there are a ton of complaints about that level tier, then you shouldn't have an opinion about the parts of the game that actually are being tested and polished RIGHT NOW.
In six months I'll want to hear ALL about your level 70 sitting up there in the annex of god facing off against enemies we can't even imagine yet, and showing off loot that hasn't even been modeled yet. Until then . . . why not ignore your 70, he really doesn't exist anyway, and talk about a character who actually does matter? Someone in the 30-65 range would be ideal.
Last edited by JohnChance#7367 on Jun 6, 2013, 4:19:43 PM
Its higschool level math at best, so a degree certainly isn't needed =P
At any rate, after playing my facebreaker witch (high mitigation and restoration with aegis aurora, crap buffer but great resists/armor) for a couple of hours after the patch launched, i can most certainly say that for trash, armor works just fine (just like it did prepatch, so meh)
You absolutely have to have immortal call for rohas and bosses tho. 30k armor does absolutely nothing against those. Even with a crapload of endurance charges. Its also worth noting, that i dont perform any better than i did prepatch, even against trash, even tho the build im talking about pretty much capitalized on all of the positive changes the patch made (marginal impact on buffer, since the build doesnt try to capitalize on it)
This is entirely subjective, not based on some scientific test or anything. But for me the patch did absolutely jack shit, for mitigation on my mitigation build.
My damage increased by truckloads tho, not that i needed it.
edit: on the "how much dps mobs have", i never claimed to have that number, we were doing that as a thought experiment on a mob that would do 5k raw damage in a hit. Damage per second actually cant be used at all, since you have to differentiate between several small hits (the forte` of armor) and big slow ones (the stuff everyone gets killed by).
@Xendran ty for posting link
This thread though doesnt supply any of the data used to generate that equation (not that i would trust that data 100% anyway). not saying its wrong, just pointing out the possibility that it can be wrong. part of the nice thing about having a math degree though is that i understand that many graphs look nearly identical over the same domain. if we change the scaling of damage (which is the variable) then we are observing a new domain of the function. you might find that that equation is not as good of an estimate (although it shouldnt be too far off). i g2g atm but ill edit this with more thoughts later tonight
Hey this is a signature! pretty cool stuff...yeah...
Have not had a chance to test out the changes so I'm just surfing the forums how about
1. Add a keynote that increases survivability at the expense of projectile damage.
2. Add a keynote that increases survivability at the expense of AoE
3. Add a base 5-10% melee deflect stat when wielding a melee weapon
My melee characters have higher survivability and much higher DPS if they were based around physical. However, I haven't played enough to form a full opinion on how the hit to my max resists will affect me in the long run. So far, I do okay but I have to run purity as a given now, when before it was optional just for maps with -max resist.
-EDIT-
Thought I'd add something to that. My marauder lost about 1,000 life. This put him at about 3,566ish life. I do however notice that regular enemies seem to hit for a lot less due to their lower damage scaling with my armor better. Therefore, I can actually take more hits than before despite the lower hp totals.
However, bosses and high powered rares still hit like a truck because despite their damage being lowered, its still so high that it melts my armor and since I have a lot less health, it hurts a lot.
I agree with the logic of trying to make the game not so focused on life and give more leeway for classes to play around. However, to do that you really need to improve the defenses in the game and make them more viable and worth actually sinking some passive points into. As it stands, when you need the defenses to work, they don't. My armor won't ever save me from a massive spike of damage. Therefore, I still need every single life node that I had before. My full respec barely changed my build, because if I removed more life, I'd be getting one shot still.
The kicker is they have really good defense to spec into, shield block. It just hits melee character dps so hard to spec into shield block though that it is basically reserved for casters and/or molten shell damage.
Has anyone tried the new changes in a CI/Ghost reaver melee spec?
I agree. I love shield block but it just isn't viable to use a shield and be melee with a one hander. The damage is just far too low, which is unfortunate.
"Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."
http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00
Meh,nevermind,I desynched so much lst night after patching and tring the new Aussie server that I lost interest by the time I finished the prison normal.
