patch 11.0 and melee

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ReZar wrote:

Didn't real all the pages so I'm sorry if it had been brought up before.

Unless I'm mistaken stacking armor might be a good thing now, mobs hit for less so armor should be much more effective.

considering what ggg said about this patch (specifically that armor should be buffed) im surprised there havent been more people to try stacking armor with hp and discussing the results here.

Unfortunately i am having internet problems at home and cannot play atm otherwise the very first thing i would have tried is stacking armor and seeing how this works. Although i admit im a little doubtful that ele damage will be tolerable with less life

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websterep wrote:

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ReZar wrote:

Didn't real all the pages so I'm sorry if it had been brought up before.

Unless I'm mistaken stacking armor might be a good thing now, mobs hit for less so armor should be much more effective.

considering what ggg said about this patch (specifically that armor should be buffed) im surprised there havent been more people to try stacking armor with hp and discussing the results here.

Unfortunately i am having internet problems at home and cannot play atm otherwise the very first thing i would have tried is stacking armor and seeing how this works. Although i admit im a little doubtful that ele damage will be tolerable with less life

so what your saying is not only do we have to stack life we also have to stack armor now to

Path of life AND Armor Nodes!

guess that doesnt leave much room for those nice new buffed dps nodes

have no idea what u guys are talking about, i have no armor or evasion just elemental defense and life drain and I'm doing waaaaaaaaay better than before

heck, I barely have any hp - i'm putting my passives into damage, crit, and accuracy for the most part, just trucking through the content UNLIKE before

because of this I am SERIOUSLY eyeballing Acrobatics

i think its great for melee, feels much more arcade now, coz i dont get 2 shot by blackguards normal attacks anymore, which gives me time to leech back enough. my lvl 70 cyclone mara has only ~2500 armor but its no prob at all, looking forward to getting more ofc, but the monster damage decrease rly rocks the boat for that class (cant feel any dmg increase tho).

where did u all read that monster life went down btw? i havent found such thing and i read patchnotes twice. maybe i overlooked it. def not feeling any stronger, the gain in killspeed is just because if have to tread less carefully i think.

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websterep wrote:

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ReZar wrote:

Didn't real all the pages so I'm sorry if it had been brought up before.

Unless I'm mistaken stacking armor might be a good thing now, mobs hit for less so armor should be much more effective.

considering what ggg said about this patch (specifically that armor should be buffed) im surprised there havent been more people to try stacking armor with hp and discussing the results here.

Unfortunately i am having internet problems at home and cannot play atm otherwise the very first thing i would have tried is stacking armor and seeing how this works. Although i admit im a little doubtful that ele damage will be tolerable with less life

Armor needs a complete overhaul tbh. Anything spikey will almost completely ignore any armor you have, and thats the only thing people ever have issues with. You get oneshot with zero armor, and you get oneshot with 15k+ armor.

And thats the end of it, really. Armor is utterly underwhelming.

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Cataca wrote:

Armor needs a complete overhaul tbh. Anything spikey will almost completely ignore any armor you have, and thats the only thing people ever have issues with. You get oneshot with zero armor, and you get oneshot with 15k+ armor.

And thats the end of it, really. Armor is utterly underwhelming.

Exactly.
Im not sure why people are coming in here claiming they can clear the ledge so much better now its completely irrelevant to the actual problem...

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dcndnts wrote:

Spoiler

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websterep wrote:

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ReZar wrote:

Didn't real all the pages so I'm sorry if it had been brought up before.

Unless I'm mistaken stacking armor might be a good thing now, mobs hit for less so armor should be much more effective.

considering what ggg said about this patch (specifically that armor should be buffed) im surprised there havent been more people to try stacking armor with hp and discussing the results here.

Unfortunately i am having internet problems at home and cannot play atm otherwise the very first thing i would have tried is stacking armor and seeing how this works. Although i admit im a little doubtful that ele damage will be tolerable with less life

so what your saying is not only do we have to stack life we also have to stack armor now to

Path of life AND Armor Nodes!

guess that doesnt leave much room for those nice new buffed dps nodes

I was thinking more of move some hp nodes to life nodes. keep dps nodes the same. maybe use a few less dps nodes and keep same dps as before. all im saying is at least try it before you say it sucks. also if mob damage and health are (supposedly) reduced but same balance as before and dps is increased, then overall survivability should be the same or better. kripp didnt make his build in one day, he changed it as needed depending on how his character played. it was a major rebalance, thus your characters might also need a major rebalance and hence you were given a respec to do just that

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Cataca wrote:

Armor needs a complete overhaul tbh. Anything spikey will almost completely ignore any armor you have, and thats the only thing people ever have issues with. You get oneshot with zero armor, and you get oneshot with 15k+ armor.

And thats the end of it, really. Armor is utterly underwhelming.

for pre-patch i completely agree that armour does nothing to help against spike damage. what about post-patch. i just dont think that enough effort has been done to find out if it can be used effectively with new patch.

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websterep wrote:

for pre-patch i completely agree that armour does nothing to help against spike damage. what about post-patch. i just dont think that enough effort has been done to find out if it can be used effectively with new patch.

It still blows tremendously.

Watch out, math after this:

Lets assume we want to reduce 5k damage to managable levels.

Net damage is something like = Raw damage^2 / (raw damage+armor/12)

so assuming those values we get:
Prepatch
Armor Net Damage
12k = 4166,66.
15k = 4000
20k = 3750
30k = 3333.33.
50k = 2727.27.
60k = 2500
(half damage breakpoint, awesome, just needed nearly 600% more armor)

Postpatch (lets assume that damage is down 10% or something like that, raw damage 4,5k)

Armor Net Damage
12k = 3681
15k = 3521,74
20k = 3283,78
30k = 3892,85
50k = 2336,53
60k = 2131,57 (half damage breakpoint somewhere before that)

So you practically just need 55k armor to reduce the hit by that mob to half its power, compared to 60k armor before.

In theory, that means that armor is indeed much stronger than before, practically it means that you still need to strive for values unattainable. Or rather, 600% more armor is harder to get than 100% more health, for the same effect. Plus, why not use enduring cry and immortal call to ignore physical damage completely. Or use evasion and and block. Or use enfeeble. Or use all of those in conjunction instead trying to build an armor tank that needs hundreds of exalts worth of gear.

What people need to understand with armor, is that its always the big hits that matter, and armor does nothing for that. Any raw damage that is armor/12 is reduced to half, as a guideline. So armor in moderation does not work.

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timed wrote:

?

Ground slam is not melee.

Ground slam is melee if you use it as a melee skill and not ranged.

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Cataca wrote:

Spoiler

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websterep wrote:

for pre-patch i completely agree that armour does nothing to help against spike damage. what about post-patch. i just dont think that enough effort has been done to find out if it can be used effectively with new patch.

It still blows tremendously.

Watch out, math after this:

Lets assume we want to reduce 5k damage to managable levels.

Net damage is something like = Raw damage^2 / (raw damage+armor/12)

so assuming those values we get:
Prepatch
Armor Net Damage
12k = 4166,66.
15k = 4000
20k = 3750
30k = 3333.33.
50k = 2727.27.
60k = 2500
(half damage breakpoint, awesome, just needed nearly 600% more armor)

Postpatch (lets assume that damage is down 10% or something like that, net damage 4,5k)

Armor Net Damage
12k = 3681
15k = 3521,74
20k = 3283,78
30k = 3892,85
50k = 2336,53
60k = 2131,57 (half damage breakpoint somewhere before that)

So you practically just need 55k armor to reduce the hit by that mob to half its power, compared to 60k armor before.

In theory, that means that armor is indeed much stronger than before, practically it means that you still need to strive for values unattainable. Or rather, 600% more armor is harder to get than 100% more health, for the same effect. Plus, why not use enduring cry and immortal call to ignore physical damage completely. Or use evasion and and block. Or use enfeeble. Or use all of those in conjunction instead trying to build an armor tank that needs hundreds of exalts worth of gear.

What people need to understand with armor, is that its always the big hits that matter, and armor does nothing for that. Any raw damage that is armor/12 is reduced to half, as a guideline. So armor in moderation does not work.

Well just so you know i hold a degree in mathematics so yes i understand all of that. however, where did you get 'Net damage is something like = Raw damage^2 / (raw damage+armor/12)'? i have never seen this before. let alone how much dps mobs have.

math is great, but without knowing the equations that the game uses i dont think you can accurately say much. Im not saying that melee is fixed nor that it is still broken. Simply that i dont understand all the bashing without taking the time to try and figure out if what ggg did was enough.