Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Here is one, what do FFA supporters have to lose with loot options? (other than people to grief)

We lose fairness. This game is competitive for us (Say FFA isn't competitive and that's an opinion, it is for us).

If we are trying to get onto a ladder or "be better" than other people, how is it fair if they don't have to face the same challenges we do? Simple answer is that it's not.

Separation by leagues would be acceptable. The same way HC and SC separate different death penalty choices. Anything on a lower level (i.e. by party or instance) is not because then the players who choose one option mix with players who choose another. Which isn't fair.

The problem with adding new leagues is that it is harder on server resources and further splits the player base. Neither of which are good things.

Edit: The interesting thing is that carebears who want stuff other than FFA can already separate themselves from the rest of the players by going solo or forming private groups.

Forming private groups is something you do. It's requires effort. It makes the game somewhat easier as well but all players can do it. That's fair. Options requires no effort and isn't much of a choice. Solo is relatively harder (particularly for some bosses).

Both of which is fair.

lol. Nice try. Since both player A and player B have the same exact options it is completely fair, your argument is fundamentally flawed.

Wanting loot options has nothing to do with being casual or carebears... sorry, but it doesn't. I want the game to be harder. I want stiffer death penalties. I want REAL PERM death in HC, none of this spill into Default so I can sell all my stuff off to buy more HC stuff. I want looting options to make partying with friends less of a hassle. I want looting options to make the game appeal to a wider audience which in turn generates higher revenue for GGG and hopefully in the long run means more content. Adding loot options does not make the game easier. Picking up loot is not challenging.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Here is one, what do FFA supporters have to lose with loot options? (other than people to grief)

We lose fairness. This game is competitive for us (Say FFA isn't competitive and that's an opinion, it is for us).

If we are trying to get onto a ladder or "be better" than other people, how is it fair if they don't have to face the same challenges we do? Simple answer is that it's not.

Separation by leagues would be acceptable. The same way HC and SC separate different death penalty choices. Anything on a lower level (i.e. by party or instance) is not because then the players who choose one option mix with players who choose another. Which isn't fair.

The problem with adding new leagues is that it is harder on server resources and further splits the player base. Neither of which are good things.

Edit: The interesting thing is that carebears who want stuff other than FFA can already separate themselves from the rest of the players by going solo or forming private groups.

Forming private groups is something you do. It's requires effort. It makes the game somewhat easier as well but all players can do it. That's fair. Options requires no effort and isn't much of a choice. Solo is relatively harder (particularly for some bosses).

Both of which is fair.

As you said, you can already separate yourself from the rest of the players by going solo or forming private groups. And in private groups you gain FAR more advantage than you would from loot options. (if loot options leads to less private parties then shouldn't it in a way become more fair?)

Why does playing with your friends require more effort than joining a public group?
Ofcourse loot options would be a choice.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

Player A doesn't have to go through randomness to decide what he gets as much as Player B (me) would.

Don't get me wrong, they still have to deal with RNG in regards to what actually drops, but they don't have the randomness of public games to say "Oh, he took that item that I could've used and won't give it to me." They don't have to deal with other players.

Basically, pure FFA with public games means you can either win or lose very big. Pure instanced is a straight "You get this." and that's it. That's the key difference between them, for me, and what changes the overall "fairness".

It adds another level of randomness which can make the game harder or easier. Easier in that I could find lots of stuff that's good for me and players who share what I need with me (or I them). It makes it harder by allowing players to take everything and not give you what you need.

That changes the difficulty. Either leave it up to luck, or make it skill based. Instanced does neither and that makes it unfair because it is "less random" than FFA. You can control the randomness (luck) of FFA by making private games, but that takes work/effort (skill).

I see where you're coming from. But I also don't see quite how it makes instanced unfair. Let's stick with instanced for now (although personally I think something with just longer timers like say 8-10 seconds would be the best route).

FFA adds the element of player randomness to it, which instanced lacks. But since you're going to have ups and downs, why couldn't we set up instanced to be slightly below the "best guess" for FFA line is. I mean remember instanced also means you're getting less loot than solo. Period. There is no up or down there (at least using the current IIQ/player and just distributing the loot that drops now). Couldn't this be used to make up for the randomness of players? Also note you have no way to know what other people are getting. As such unless the others are actively sharing their drops you have no way of knowing to ask after a drop that could be useful for you.

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Overall though, I don't think the game needs to change, beyond bugs and adding content, as is.

I love this game as is, and I think it will thrive whether it keeps the current loot system or changes it to something more carebear friendly. It doesn't really matter. I just know I will enjoy it less if it happens. I won't leave, but I will enjoy it less.

While I agree with some of this I continue to take issue with the use of "carebear" and "hardcore" until someone gives me a better definition of them. To me they're elitist terms used to put others down for playing/enjoying the game differently. Basically human nature 101, we need to feel superior to others somehow, so we invented terms that have almost no intrinsic meaning so we can always be on the winning side.

I just had an incident which relates to this entire topic.

Recently, I lost a Legendary item by having my inventory full. I was playing with my friend when I said loudly "Oh, a Legendary!", I tried to pick it up only to realize that my inventory was full and my friend picked it up instantly after the short timer had passed. We were both melee so there was nowhere near enough time for me to drop a trash-item and then pick the Legendary up.

I'm not going to ruin our friendship over an item, but I feel robbed by the system at hand, especially since I really needed the item(As well as my friend). Yes, I made a mistake by accidentally picking up a trash-item in the fight prior to this one. However, I still feel entitled to something that was mine by right.

I think the timer is a good idea, but it should be buffed to at least 5 seconds. Preferably more IMO.

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Lorgarn wrote:

I just had an incident which relates to this entire topic.

Recently, I lost a Legendary item by having my inventory full. I was playing with my friend when I said loudly "Oh, a Legendary!", I tried to pick it up only to realize that my inventory was full and my friend picked it up instantly after the short timer had passed. We were both melee so there was nowhere near enough time for me to drop a trash-item and then pick the Legendary up.

I'm not going to ruin our friendship over an item, but I feel robbed by the system at hand, especially since I really needed the item(As well as my friend). Yes, I made a mistake by accidentally picking up a trash-item in the fight prior to this one. However, I still feel entitled to something that was mine by right.

I think the timer is a good idea, but it should be buffed to at least 5 seconds. Preferably more IMO.

No matter how long the timer is, if you click on it while your inventory is full it will pop back out unallocated and free for anyone. If he was a real friend though he wouldn't have taken it....

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Lorgarn wrote:

I just had an incident which relates to this entire topic.

Recently, I lost a Legendary item by having my inventory full. I was playing with my friend when I said loudly "Oh, a Legendary!", I tried to pick it up only to realize that my inventory was full and my friend picked it up instantly after the short timer had passed. We were both melee so there was nowhere near enough time for me to drop a trash-item and then pick the Legendary up.

I'm not going to ruin our friendship over an item, but I feel robbed by the system at hand, especially since I really needed the item(As well as my friend). Yes, I made a mistake by accidentally picking up a trash-item in the fight prior to this one. However, I still feel entitled to something that was mine by right.

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lol... Legendarys?


BTW, thems the breaks.

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Lorgarn wrote:

I just had an incident which relates to this entire topic.

Recently, I lost a Legendary item by having my inventory full. I was playing with my friend when I said loudly "Oh, a Legendary!", I tried to pick it up only to realize that my inventory was full and my friend picked it up instantly after the short timer had passed. We were both melee so there was nowhere near enough time for me to drop a trash-item and then pick the Legendary up.

I'm not going to ruin our friendship over an item, but I feel robbed by the system at hand, especially since I really needed the item(As well as my friend). Yes, I made a mistake by accidentally picking up a trash-item in the fight prior to this one. However, I still feel entitled to something that was mine by right.

I think the timer is a good idea, but it should be buffed to at least 5 seconds. Preferably more IMO.

I play with one friend most of the time and if this had happened to us he would have given me the item without having to ask, in fact he wouldn't have looted it in the first place. I dunno, maybe get better friends?

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MrH wrote:

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Lorgarn wrote:

I just had an incident which relates to this entire topic.

Recently, I lost a Legendary item by having my inventory full. I was playing with my friend when I said loudly "Oh, a Legendary!", I tried to pick it up only to realize that my inventory was full and my friend picked it up instantly after the short timer had passed. We were both melee so there was nowhere near enough time for me to drop a trash-item and then pick the Legendary up.

I'm not going to ruin our friendship over an item, but I feel robbed by the system at hand, especially since I really needed the item(As well as my friend). Yes, I made a mistake by accidentally picking up a trash-item in the fight prior to this one. However, I still feel entitled to something that was mine by right.

I think the timer is a good idea, but it should be buffed to at least 5 seconds. Preferably more IMO.

I play with one friend most of the time and if this had happened to us he would have given me the item without having to ask, in fact he wouldn't have looted it in the first place. I dunno, maybe get better friends?

Ultimately it boils down to who You play with, but I doubt if You can find (or even want to find) many trustworthy gaming buddies, not to mention gaming friends, if Your staple experience is getting all the stuff tagged with Your character's name picked up by others.

I play solo 99% of the time. There is no reason to play in groups, all that brings is ninja's, game politics and frame lag.

The game is 1000% better solo. Sure its a lot harder but I prefer to be solo. As for the 1% when I'm not solo I play with a friend I've gamed with for over 12 years. This game isn't a team game, don't think it will ever be just because of the greed involved.

You can do whatever you want to change the system but the fact remains is that people are out to screw you when they have the opportunity since there is no punishment for their actions.

This game would be so much better if loot was done like it is in diablo 3. Sorry for bringing that game up but diablo 3's loot system was far better (I have the sense that GGG is more about theft and greed in terms of loot, which to me is a very poor choice). As for everything else POE is king.

Been gaming online since 1999. Been around the block and I wish the loot system would change.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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Singingdog1110 wrote:

Sorry to say this, but the public game race to the loot is just a minor aspect of the whole ranking race. PoE is a game big and difficult enough for it to be that way. There is no way that implementing a perm allocation option would affect the ranking of the really good players. Just more people would find openings into the low-mid range, at the most. And yes, I think definitely more people would be encouraged to play.

Doesn't matter. It's an aspect. Honestly, the game's content isn't difficult. It's the added elements of randomness that make it difficult. And difficulty, for what some would call "hardcore" players, is what makes it fun, to an extent.

"Fun" is a subjective term by definition, and I'm pretty sure that if You made a poll among hardcore gamers on what they considered fun and not-fun, You'd get some varying answers.
And mind You, I'm not writing here about the hardcore mode/league. All this time I've been writing about the default/softcore one.
If You absolutely need to "beat others to it" to tick, it's Your own issue. Not everyone interested in the game considers racing to items to be worth that much in terms of gameplay. Skills (including team skills) players bring into the game are also random, and sometimes are more important to the way the game is played. If there's no squabbling over items, and a perm allocation option should lessen that, one can concentrate on other aspects, and not just on "just don't let them beat me to it".