Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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mibuwolf wrote:

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mushioov wrote:

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AceNightfire wrote:

I guess you didn't understand my idea. The timer should HINDER ALL people from getting the item and only AFTER the timer has passed, EVERYONE can take it. That's why the timer should be invisible. So as soon as an item drops, you don't know how fast you must be to get it. Makes looting really exciting.

Well that would mean that everyone would just be clicking on it, trying to get it. It's not the case now, unless something very rare drops.

That's the point of competition, or so I thought...

Yeah stick to the details now. Competition is the point, but not if you don't know if the game is lagging or why the hell you can't pick that stuff up that should be pickable.

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mobutu wrote:

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mushioov wrote:

Let us real gamers enjoy games of our level.

the comedian strikes again :)

The GREAT comedian, if I may correct you.

In advance sorry for a long post, I just want to address stuff addressed to me.

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RestInPieces wrote:

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viikinki wrote:

The only real argument I've heard for keeping FFA as is is the "we want to grief", and almost every pro-FFA argumenter here has either accidentally, intentionally or indirectly admitted it. That IS a valid argument, it's up to devs if it's a good one.

That's outright slandering. Next time you make such assumptions please read the whole thread.

I'll take back the 'almost every', and replaced it with 'many of the very vocal ones'. Apologies for making too broad a generalization. In the last pages I've been following this at least three of the most vocal ones have admitted to liking the griefing aspect of the current system.

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I'd love to hear answers that argue these points instead of going into senseless drivel:

No one is asking anything to be taken away from the FFA crowd if loot options are added. Why constantly act like we're asking for an FFA feature to be removed?

If people play in non-FFA parties, how having loot options hurts the FFA parties who these non-FFA people are not playing with?

What difference does it make to FFA parties if other (private) parties have better game-provided loot division mechanisms?

No one is asking for anything to be removed. But added.

Now, sorry but, THIS, is a ridiculous argument. But hey, i've heard worse than yours:

"Add a respec option, whoever doesn't want to respec can just choose not to! We don't want to take anything away from the hardcore-ness of your game!"

"I hate the RNG! Add orbs for standard mods! Don't want to take anything out of the game, whoever likes RNG will use chaos!"

"Add a difficulty option! If you want the game to be challenging it can stay that way for you, add it and everyone will be happy!"

I hope you understand why these arguments are no arguments at all.

I asked for an answer to my questions, the above does not answer but derails. Apples and oranges. You answered precisely zero of them.

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FFA loot adds to the feeling of the game. You go out with your (trusted) comrades in battle, slay monsters and share the loot! That's the idea! And some people actually enjoy it.

You are supporting my arguments here, focus on battle and sharing. You didn't bring "fighting over loot" to this enjoyement here.

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Separate/Instanced loot, except the unrealistic and dumb fact that you are the only one looting a monster and the items that drop before you are invisible to others, makes you feel
like you are playing in a bubble, which is one of the worst things in an online game.
Totally hated the system in D3, it was dull at best.

I'm not asking for anyone to be forced to play under any changed rules. I'm advocating a system of choice. If people want to play in a bubble let them, I don't. I want to play with a ruleset where I can ask the game to divide the expensive loot so I don't have to have a webcam and a physical die for fair loot distribution, or other complicated system. I don't mind if others want to play in full FFA mode, and I think they should add 'no timers' option while adding 'longer timers' option, among with other options the devs would see as reasonable.

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Finally, it's not that hard to communicate with people and find some trusted allies to party with. That's what a friend list is for. You will be surprised at how many decent and respectful players are playing the game. It will also make partying more enjoyable for you as well, instead of feeling you are partying with bots.

Agreed, I try to gather friends for the purpose of getting away from 'loot wars'. Every once in a while a rotten apple gets into those parties which momentarily ruins the game we want to play for us and it would be really nice if game had options for us to hinder those griefers who know perfectly well we don't want them in the parties doing things that we call stealing. Every instance of a so-called 'ninja' in a public group I am in is intentional griefing, since the public groups I am in explicitely state that ninjaing is not allowed. It's intellectual dishonesty saying that ninjaing doesn't exist or that this does not happen intentionally.

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mushioov wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

If you could respec by just playing solo or playing with friends I wouldn't see the problems with allowing it in public games aswell.

I knew you were casual-cancer. All your points got invalidated in that instance. Bye.

LOL. Casual-cancer? That's what you take from a post where I said that I would love a harder difficulity settting?

I would say that your points got invalidated, but they were never valid to begin with.


Oh, you obviously didn't understand that exercise you quoted, so here let me explain it so a simple man like you can undertsand it:

IF you could respec in if you just play solo games or in private parties
THEN I would not be against it in public parties.

If you think that means that I want full respecs then you are stupid. Logic, try using it!


IF you could avoid loot competition in if you just play solo games or in private parties
THEN I would not be against it in public parties.

You people need to understand that non-competitive loot is already in the game and it's not ruining anything.
If everyone HAS to be forced into the competetive features, then why allow private parties or solo? Your theories doesn't hold up against reality.

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mushioov wrote:

Yeah stick to the details now. Competition is the point, but not if you don't know if the game is lagging or why the hell you can't pick that stuff up that should be pickable.

What? Everyone would have a fair shot if the timer was the same for everyone. Timer wouldn't need adjusted for anyone unless they have 200+ ms ping. The ms difference would be minor otherwise.

Also, if this indeed was implemented, then something to fix loot radius would help, or even player collision when looting. It's absurd.

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mibuwolf wrote:

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mushioov wrote:

Yeah stick to the details now. Competition is the point, but not if you don't know if the game is lagging or why the hell you can't pick that stuff up that should be pickable.

What? Everyone would have a fair shot if the timer was the same for everyone. Timer wouldn't need adjusted for anyone unless they have 200+ ms ping. The ms difference would be minor otherwise.

I don't see how that would be better than the current one, BUT I'm all up for testing that out if they want to do that.

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mushioov wrote:

I don't see how that would be better than the current one, BUT I'm all up for testing that out if they want to do that.

Because then it is no longer allocated to random people anymore? It would be truly FFA again, but with a timer to restrict people who are faster to get to the loot to have a higher chance at success. It would be a more fair distribution. Expected loot SHOULD come with a outcome of every player in a 6 man group getting '1/6th' of all the loot dropped in the instance, unless the choice was made to NOT pick up something.

While we're on the debate for loot options,

Wouldn't it be cool if there was an option a party leader could select for PK looting? We discussed it a bit here and there, but if I could set that all uniques could be PK'd over... that would be interesting, no?

Problem with a lot of the arguments you guys keep presenting is the loot currently isn't hardcore, nor is it cut-throat. If anything you guys should be suggesting that the looting system is made MORE hardcore, rather than suggesting that it should be left "as is".

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Ten_of_Swords wrote:

I would dare say that one of the highest goals of games like these is to form a trusted circle of friends to play with. It is not easy at all. Loot "options" would let someone achieve the same benefits without having to make friends, trust anyone, be nice, or share.

So now being hardcore ("It is not easy at all") means you have to "form a trusted circle of friends to play with" so you can circumvent the "loot-tension" that the devs want it?