Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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viikinki wrote:

You didn't answer either of the questions.

That's because i am not interested in your strawmans and in general am not easily manipulated.

For a while i listening to the bnet forums logic and thought the time of FFA was past, we had a better system now, right?

That's until i entered my first party in PoE. I remembered what fun and lootlust was again, and i realized how much the fear of losing your loot drives the gameplay forward when in a party.

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If you make arguments like that you need to explain why solo and private parties doesn't function based on that idea. Or are you too far ahead for that?

I am not here to teach you how to think from the ground up. I give you all the logical connections and the words weaved such that you can pursue understanding and eventually come to understand every word i have said.

His strawmen? wow

Here is a text book example of a strawman:

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Crackmonster wrote:

The question really is: do you want to create a game that reaches out to as many as possible, at the expense of the quality that comes from focusing on creating a game for a certain group of people - or do you want to go for max profits.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I am not here to teach you how to think from the ground up. I give you all the logical connections and the words weaved such that you can pursue understanding and eventually come to understand every word i have said.

It's clear that you are here to assert your superiority over everyone else.


Still, if you want to have a discussion I am curious if you think that fear of losing your loot should be present in solo and private parties aswell?

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Sickness wrote:

His strawmen? wow

Here is a text book example of a strawman:

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Crackmonster wrote:

The question really is: do you want to create a game that reaches out to as many as possible, at the expense of the quality that comes from focusing on creating a game for a certain group of people - or do you want to go for max profits.

Here, this is the of the essential points he was making, which btw, was not a question.

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If there are no party options the worst case is the carebears leave the game. That's half the revenue of GGG away, in worst case it's bankrupcy and you lose your game.

The question he asked me was a strawman, he wanted me to say yes to something obviously correct, a situation he created, so that he may use my yes to imply that its best to have the most money. This is a TEXTBOOK strawman.

Because he was making this point, with its added strawman, i thought the most relavent thing to discuss was if it was ever worth basing your arguments merely on money, and therefore i consider it highly on point to discuss making a specialized product or one for the masses.

Ya'dig?

EDIT: oh i forgot to mention, i didnt try to make him agree to anything or provide and obvious correct example to use as strawman. I wrote some realities and what you make of them is up to you.

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It's clear that you are here to assert your superiority over everyone else.


Still, if you want to have a discussion I am curious if you think that fear of losing your loot should be present in solo and private parties aswell?

I merely state reason wisdom and understanding, and defend my points. I have not lied to you, but it is a bit dark of me to play you out for rofls because you are not on my level bro, sorry.

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Crackmonster wrote:

For a while i listening to the bnet forums logic and thought the time of FFA was past, we had a better system now, right?

That's until i entered my first party in PoE. I remembered what fun and lootlust was again, and i realized how much the fear of losing your loot drives the gameplay forward when in a party.

If you consider the loss of loot to be a motivator I have a loot system that you would like.

Add the current timer to solo players. Once the timer expires (solo and co-op) the item is destroyed and removed from the game. This way everyone faces the same risks and gets to enjoy the fear of losing items.

^^ lets start with the exaggerations shant we?

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Sickness wrote:

His strawmen? wow

Here is a text book example of a strawman:

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Crackmonster wrote:

The question really is: do you want to create a game that reaches out to as many as possible, at the expense of the quality that comes from focusing on creating a game for a certain group of people - or do you want to go for max profits.

Exactly, Crackmonster, all you keep saying is that you like the way the game is and no one should ever change it, the end. Well just because you're closed minded and can't fathom anything different in your perfect little world doesn't mean everyone else who think the system is broken should have to suffer.

And what's with this superiority complex, saying you don't have to teach people to think? You don't have to be a jerk to people when they ask you why you don't want it changed. Stop dancing around the issue saying it would spread the game thin and maximize profits because it won't do either. Choosing how loot is dropped isn't a new thing and it's been done before and worked.

I bet if they didn't have respec points, and people argued for it here, you would argue against it saying the same dribble you do, because you can't handle change and you just want all the loot you can get for yourself. How about you let people play how THEY want to play, rather than be selfish.

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Crackmonster wrote:

^^ lets start with the exaggerations shant we?

So why do you like the current system?
Is it the fear of losing item or the increased loot that you can gain?

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Crackmonster wrote:

Here, this is the of the essential points he was making, which btw, was not a question.

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If there are no party options the worst case is the carebears leave the game. That's half the revenue of GGG away, in worst case it's bankrupcy and you lose your game.

The question he asked me was a strawman, he wanted me to say yes to something obviously correct, a situation he created, so that he may use my yes to imply that its best to have the most money. This is a TEXTBOOK strawman.

What did I want you to say 'yes' and what was obviousy correct?

I really have no idea.


Let me iterate again what I tried to ask, I provide answers to two points you can nitpick on the actual question before asking the actual question, so chronology might be hard for you to follow on the rest of the post:

*1) Burden of proof really rests on the person who claims proof that it will hurt the game, 'the thought experiment' contains this paragraph that would imply no harm can actually happen:

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The carebears will play in their own parties, and the hardcores in their own parties. Both groups receive exactly the same amount of loot. Economy is exactly the same.

*2) At least part of the player base = at least people here arguing for loot options, the proportion of said group is likely to be quite high since this thread has so many pages. It's quite likely to be high enough to be a severe impact for GGGs revenue if all of them leave.

If no adverse effects from loot options can be proven(*1) why not implement them when at least part of the player base(*2) wants them?

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wrathmar wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

^^ lets start with the exaggerations shant we?

So why do you like the current system?
Is it the fear of losing item or the increased loot that you can gain?

It is the synergy of it all, how people's energies merge into one unit of terrible cohesion.

Guys i am gonna stop here for today, thanks for your time i enjoyed it a lot, but as i wrote several pages back, then i have already made the points i felt were important, and now its just garbage points from both you and me because you skipped nicely past all of my points and continued on the rampage that (you?) have been on for the last 700 pages of this thread.

You wont get me to make an obvious logical mistake so stop trying, the thing we can agree to here is to disagre, which is naturally because you understand less :D, and with that i take my leave!

Adios amigos!