Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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mibuwolf wrote:

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wrathmar wrote:

No it’s a legitimate suggestion. Change the current timer allocation system and add FFA to the pool of available map mods.

What would that solve? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that.

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viikinki wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

Obvious reason needs no extra proof, the evidence is in the wording itself, in plain view of all.

Not so long ago it was obvious that Earth was flat and that witches should be burnt.

Obviously no proof was needed and it was all right and good.

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The argument I was referring to, is this:

"If looting options were available, then everybody will flock to the option that ISNT FFA."

However, I would counter with this:

What if we made it so that FFA had bonuses over other options provided by GGG? Vooodu mentioned this before and I think that would be an okay thing to do.

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Crackmonster wrote:

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viikinki wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

Obvious reason needs no extra proof, the evidence is in the wording itself, in plain view of all.

Not so long ago it was obvious that Earth was flat and that witches should be burnt.

Obviously no proof was needed and it was all right and good.

I could tell you that earth isnt flat and youd be cool.

1000 years ago i could attempt the same and u'd be life: Proof please bla bla

obvious is obvious, and deviants do not represent the body of the sample

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Crackmonster wrote:

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The argument I was referring to, is this:

"If looting options were available, then everybody will flock to the option that ISNT FFA."

However, I would counter with this:

What if we made it so that FFA had bonuses over other options provided by GGG? Vooodu mentioned this before and I think that would be an okay thing to do.

Well we wont make it so and he is right, the masses will flock to where they have most gain - where they can haz while slacking around

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Sickness wrote:

You really don't understand concept behind burden of proof and why evidence is important when you make claims, do you?

If you believe that the earth is flat and someone tells you that it's not, then asking for proof is the rational thing to do.

Anyways, his point was that just because something seems obvious to you doesn't mean you get a free pass on providing evidence.

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Nevertheless, the fear of losing your loot drives you forward.

The fear of losing your life drives you to live.

Shit is funny aint it, and we only scratched the surface.

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viikinki wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

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The argument I was referring to, is this:

"If looting options were available, then everybody will flock to the option that ISNT FFA."

However, I would counter with this:

What if we made it so that FFA had bonuses over other options provided by GGG? Vooodu mentioned this before and I think that would be an okay thing to do.

Well we wont make it so and he is right, the masses will flock to where they have most gain - where they can haz while slacking around

So let me get this right, this would happen:

1) Bad looter portion in FFA loot parties flock to easier loot option groups
2) Then only good looters stay in FFA
3) goto 1

So, it's not about being FFA, since with that logic (which you confirmed) even the best looters eventually are either alone or in easier loot option groups.

So, the only thing holding them in FFA groups is the fact that they get more loots than others.

So, in other words, they already in the current system are in the easiest league, easier than any other, the only one that gives them more loot than any so-called-easier loot system.

So, you are against giving options since it would take away the option that you leech off the people who are not looter-gods like you.

So, you are only protecting your own greedy interests by arguing for FFA system. The more FFA you argue for, the more greedy you are. All of the above logic can be reconstrued by virtually any arguments the pro-FFA team can muster.

Calling it cutthroat or hardcore is just walking around the actual argument.

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viikinki wrote:

I would like to add a little thought experiment.

If you pro-FFA crowd enjoy the FFA even though let's assume you are getting just the same amount of loot as everyone else in a hypotethical group whre everyone is equally good at looting and you enjoy it.

Then let's for the sake of argument imagine there's two groups of players, carebears and hardcores. Carebears want instanced loot. Hardcores want FFA loot. Let's for the sake of argument imagine these groups as 50/50 of playerbase.

If there are no party options the worst case is the carebears leave the game. That's half the revenue of GGG away, in worst case it's bankrupcy and you lose your game.

If there are party options to lengthen timers or instance the loot. The carebears will play in their own parties, and the hardcores in their own parties. Both groups receive exactly the same amount of loot. Economy is exactly the same. GGG has double revenue and can focus on content and whatnot at higher pace.

Who lost? And why?

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Crackmonster wrote:

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viikinki wrote:

I would like to add a little thought experiment.

If you pro-FFA crowd enjoy the FFA even though let's assume you are getting just the same amount of loot as everyone else in a hypotethical group whre everyone is equally good at looting and you enjoy it.

Then let's for the sake of argument imagine there's two groups of players, carebears and hardcores. Carebears want instanced loot. Hardcores want FFA loot. Let's for the sake of argument imagine these groups as 50/50 of playerbase.

If there are no party options the worst case is the carebears leave the game. That's half the revenue of GGG away, in worst case it's bankrupcy and you lose your game.

If there are party options to lengthen timers or instance the loot. The carebears will play in their own parties, and the hardcores in their own parties. Both groups receive exactly the same amount of loot. Economy is exactly the same. GGG has double revenue and can focus on content and whatnot at higher pace.

Who lost? And why?

I have just posted this in another thread, it explains:

The question really is: do you want to create a game that reaches out to as many as possible, at the expense of the quality that comes from focusing on creating a game for a certain group of people - or do you want to go for max profits.

The profits path will have you more money in the short run, but requires you to create something new when this just gets too boring after some years.

If you create something for a specific group of people you can pour your heart into one project that lasts for years and years. You won't get as much money probably, but you will gain the respect and love of that group.

In the end, all seeks social status, and making a sellout game will not get you it.

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Crackmonster wrote:

actually the burden of proof is on you, trying to change the ways of the past.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I have already said more than enough, each time you try to make me comment will be just another worthless comment like the one that provoked it, because you are far far behind in understanding how far ahead in thinking i am.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Nevertheless, the fear of losing your loot drives you forward.

The fear of losing your life drives you to live.

Shit is funny aint it, and we only scratched the surface.

The science of memory do you know it? How to: Make a memorable game.