Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

This has nothing to do with skill. But keep pretending that it does. Oh, didn't I ask some of you to come pvp with me? How come no one is answering?

You act as if this proves something. You also act as if pvp is actually good in POE.

PVP in POE is currently out of wack and not even close to balanced.


A build with Temporal Chainz + Cold Spell/Lightning Spell totems can pretty much avoid duels and win everytime.

Totems wouldn't do crap to me. You don't sound good at pvp at all. But keep preaching looting pvp as if thats soooooo much better.

...This is a loot thread. Is it not?

Wether im the best or worst at pvp really doesn't matter does it?

Well, it looks like the thread turned into "I'm right. You're wrong." again. *sigh*

Since Vooodu and company are ignoring the issues, I will just post this from now on to refresh what we are debating about.

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Mibuwolf wrote:

A. no cutthroat league. It's part of the problem, actually. GGG could force cutthroat league to have FFA with no timers and all the hardcore players would play there.

B. Timer doesn't help when your item is stuck due to player collision, nor does it help when a bunch of people run ahead of the group opening chests and trying to race to get more loot period. This leads to people playing for themselves rather than as a group. People currently group up just for the quantity bonus and that is all. This loot issue I am describing ALSO is why multiboxing/multiloading is becoming a more viable option because it just cuts out ALL of the frustration.

C. Not many people want the timer.

D. Not many people want nametags on the loot so you can get bitched at for stealing "their loot". This miscommunication is the developers fault for making the player think the loot is theirs.

E. Loot options would satisfy a larger amount of players and could possibly end this entire debate.

F. There are sometimes over half the games listed with "Ninja=kick". It is cumbersome. Some games don't even have "ninja=kick" in the title and you will be kicked sometimes before the boss. This leads to frustration.

G. This current system is just not cut-throat. It just isn't. White items are cut-throat, but... what about the rest. This timer isn't a solution. It should hopefully only be a placeholder for the devs to solve the REAL issue.

There are possibly MANY more issues with the loot system that are not known to me, but these are the issues that I felt popped up in my head almost instantly.

You solve these issues, then I think all the 'whining' would just "go away". I don't see how FFA can stay while solving those issues. If you just look back, GGG already acknowledged FFA was an issue and they added the timers because a good percentage of the players have issues getting their loot due to miscellaneous forces out of their control.

Therefore, it is wise to find a way to KEEP FFA, while also providing other loot options so that there is more of a variety to choose from. The anti-options 'team' has decided that instanced loot in combination with FFA would make everyone flock to instanced looting. However, nobody has stated anything about how instanced looting would be implemented.

Example: FFA could maintain the quantity bonus while within a group of 6, while a group of 6 in instanced looting rules would have 0% bonus quantity and would have no benenfits over playing solo, except for the fact that you rely on the group's killing speed to progress.

This... is what you call a "compromise". Someone loses something potentially, but gains something in return. FFA players would lose the timer, but gain the true vision of GGG. Instanced players will gladly leave FFA for a more enjoyable group experience. (ie. no lonewolfing).

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EndOfEnds wrote:

Haha, I'm not calling people with the same opinion as me "baddies", so it's clear that you haven't been reading this thread. I'm just semi-quoting some of the FFA arguments which seem to believe people who want instanced loot (or less FFA loot) are "Mad cuz bad".

I'm not trying to argue the game will die very soon, but it will certainly last longer if there is a community. With the current loot system, this community is NEVER going to form.

got bad news for ya buddy. There already is a community if you haven't noticed. seems like your completely wrong here. We also have D2 as evidence against that statement. Communities can and do exist with FFA loot rules. try again. Instead of making this crap up cant you guys just admit you want all the loots and you want the rules changed so that happens? I like how your disguising your greed though its clever but its not working. people are seeing right through it.

This is the explanation you will fail to acknowledge:

Society, the world, and everything where man is involved will be shaped by a few and the masses will follow.


Those few are motivated by individuality, by being able to set themselves apart and thereby feeling satisfied in their purpose in life. These people seek an environment where their knowledge and abilties will reflect in ability to perform.

Followers do not have the same abilties because of lack of freedom of thought, yet, they are also humans and they also want to stand out and get the best that they can from their ability.

In relation to this FFA issue it manifests in the way that those who are in the slower / less practice / less skilled part of the playerbase are getting angry because others are able to use their abilties to take loot that they probably deserved in terms of performance in the first place.

The masses want more, and the slower part of them wants to get the loot that their abilties do not allow them. They want to make the game less reflective of your ability and skill as a player so that they are not forced to deal with the fact that they are not so good at looting.

However, the masses follow and desire to be like the few.

Therefore, once the masses have turned something great where you were able to use your ability to stand out - into something where you can do that less, then the few are more likely to feel this game is not a place where they belong.

When they move on, the circle comes complete and the masses move on because they follow the few.

However little you want to accept it, the world is as it is for a reason and you cannot resist the natural way of things for more than a short time after which you learn. A good game is one where good players stand out in many ways, which makes it interesting for them, and like all other things in life, if you are not willing to invest the energy and time to learn something, then you will not be as effective playing.

Let us quickly investigate the situation with FFA again.

The players who have issues, are those who are less fast then others and feel they are not getting their share of the loot, and it is also those whose builds are not strong enough to stand in the fight - etc etc.

They feel they have a right to have an equal percentage of the drops because they are used to games that cater to the masses by removing the power from those who have greater skills.

At the end of the day the masses and the few are opposed - the masses want to even out drops so that they get more themselves, even if it is not earned by their performance, and the few wants FFA so that their superior positioning and loot skills pay off.

Do what the masses want, and the leaders will disappear. When the leaders are gone the masses will follow and it will repeat itself.

That is why GGG must stand up to the badness, and let them cry all they want, but never give in because if you do just an ounce they will never stop crying. That is how humans with no spine work, they beg of others until others help them if others do not learn to tell them to deal with things themselves

You players who cannot let go and feel so mad because you lost something, need to relax and as i said: Let go. Realize your chances are as fair as any's and that your world does not come to an end should you not get a drop.

You may call me the professor of the mind, and be warned that should you fail to heed my warning the circle will become complete once again.

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Vooodu wrote:

...This is a loot thread. Is it not?

Wether im the best or worst at pvp really doesn't matter does it?

Ya, and FFA is a form of competitive pvp, that people like you beleive should be forced onto everyone. You and that crack addict guy like to act so friggin good at this game and put everyone else down for not enjoying public games, but you can't even play the actual pvp? You guys are nothing but a bunch of talk.

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derbefrier wrote:

. Instead of making this crap up cant you guys just admit you want all the loots and you want the rules changed so that happens? I like how your disguising your greed though its clever but its not working. people are seeing right through it.

Oooh... Wait for it.











Wait for it.















+1








My first +1 in this thread. :D

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Crackmonster wrote:

The players who have issues, are those who are less fast then others and feel they are not getting their share of the loot, and it is also those whose builds are not strong enough to stand in the fight - etc etc.

Sigh. Can you not accept that there are other factors when considering the speed of grabbing loot other than the effectiveness of a build to stand in the fight alone? I'm an exclusive hardcore player, and I solo just about everything. I am perfectly capable of standing in the middle of a fight to pick up loot. The problem arises when I am actually unable to pick up loot due to desync and latency from server-side reasons. Until these issues are fixed or lessened (I know there will always be desync in online games), the current loot system has nothing to do about skill and 'bad builds'.

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Instead of making this crap up cant you guys just admit you want all the loots and you want the rules changed so that happens? I like how your disguising your greed though its clever but its not working. people are seeing right through it.

Odd that, all of the people on the other side of the debate seem to be arguing that all of you FFA-defenders want the rules to stay as they are so you can get all the loots. You're just disguising your greed through your hardcore fanboyism. See, I can play that game too.

I fail to see how wanting an option of instanced loot (Where you get your own fair share of the loot) is "wanting all the loots". If you can argue this, please do.

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mibuwolf wrote:

Well, it looks like the thread turned into "I'm right. You're wrong." again. *sigh*

Since Vooodu and company are ignoring the issues, I will just post this from now on to refresh what we are debating about.

"

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Mibuwolf wrote:

A. no cutthroat league. It's part of the problem, actually. GGG could force cutthroat league to have FFA with no timers and all the hardcore players would play there.

B. Timer doesn't help when your item is stuck due to player collision, nor does it help when a bunch of people run ahead of the group opening chests and trying to race to get more loot period. This leads to people playing for themselves rather than as a group. People currently group up just for the quantity bonus and that is all. This loot issue I am describing ALSO is why multiboxing/multiloading is becoming a more viable option because it just cuts out ALL of the frustration.

C. Not many people want the timer.

D. Not many people want nametags on the loot so you can get bitched at for stealing "their loot". This miscommunication is the developers fault for making the player think the loot is theirs.

E. Loot options would satisfy a larger amount of players and could possibly end this entire debate.

F. There are sometimes over half the games listed with "Ninja=kick". It is cumbersome. Some games don't even have "ninja=kick" in the title and you will be kicked sometimes before the boss. This leads to frustration.

G. This current system is just not cut-throat. It just isn't. White items are cut-throat, but... what about the rest. This timer isn't a solution. It should hopefully only be a placeholder for the devs to solve the REAL issue.

There are possibly MANY more issues with the loot system that are not known to me, but these are the issues that I felt popped up in my head almost instantly.

You solve these issues, then I think all the 'whining' would just "go away". I don't see how FFA can stay while solving those issues. If you just look back, GGG already acknowledged FFA was an issue and they added the timers because a good percentage of the players have issues getting their loot due to miscellaneous forces out of their control.

Therefore, it is wise to find a way to KEEP FFA, while also providing other loot options so that there is more of a variety to choose from. The anti-options 'team' has decided that instanced loot in combination with FFA would make everyone flock to instanced looting. However, nobody has stated anything about how instanced looting would be implemented.

Example: FFA could maintain the quantity bonus while within a group of 6, while a group of 6 in instanced looting rules would have 0% bonus quantity and would have no benenfits over playing solo, except for the fact that you rely on the group's killing speed to progress.

This... is what you call a "compromise". Someone loses something potentially, but gains something in return. FFA players would lose the timer, but gain the true vision of GGG. Instanced players will gladly leave FFA for a more enjoyable group experience. (ie. no lonewolfing).

I'll just keep posting this because that's all this thread is doing. So many logical fallacies it's not even funny.

I would like to add that if group play was made harder than solo, options would I think make even more sense overall. Give the party a challenge and then people would really like to focus on combat first, and loot second. I know I would for one.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Crackmonster wrote:

You dont get it - masses will flock to the easiest option and they will never turn down the choice of making things more easy and mindless

In the end they will bring their own downfall just like Diablo 3 and the whole of Blizz, not understanding why - they just wanted it to be easier and more mindless

What the heck is wrong with you people? How many times do I have to say it? I'll try again in all caps....

THIS GAME ALREADY HAS PRIVATE PARTIES, WHICH IS THE EASIEST WAY TO PLAY THE GAME!!!

NON COMPETITIVE PUBLIC PARTIES CHANGES ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, PRIVATE PARTIES WITH FRIENDS WILL STILL BE THE EASIEST WAY TO PLAY THE GAME.

LOOTING OPTIONS DOES NOT MAKE THE GAME ANY EASIER AS A WHOLE AND PEOPLE WHO WANT LOOTING OPTIONS DO NOT WANT AN EASIER GAME. ITS A PLAYSTYLE CHOICE.

Apparently I can make this argument until the cows come home and the FFA supporters will just ignore it and keep making their lame "The game would be easier arguments". Its like talking to a brick wall.

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derbefrier wrote:

Instead of making this crap up cant you guys just admit you want all the loots and you want the rules changed so that happens? I like how your disguising your greed though its clever but its not working. people are seeing right through it.

Congratulations on revealing that you have no idea what your talking about.