Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Think it's a deterrent for most people when there is more incentive to rush across the screen to pick something up before another player takes it than there is to actually kill something and contributing to the party.

"No ninja" teams are unrealistic in public games

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Sickness wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

Statements like that is why it's so hard to take the pro-FFA side seriously. But you guys keep saying the craziest shit.

You seem to like facts, so here are some:
People will play FFA even if there are loot options. That's a fact because people have said that they will in this very thread.

Loot is a reward. That you can kill monsters and not get loot could not be more irrelevant. You can find a lost kitten and return it without getting something, does that mean that if return a lost kitten and get some money that is not a reward? No, obviously not. A reward is a reward, IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL if you get it everytime or not.
Also, why the heck do you make a distinction between bonus and reward? If you get a bonus then THAT IS YOUR REWARD.
Do you even know that the word reward means?

I have a minute, and I'll respond to this because you called me out on it.

re·ward
/riˈwôrd/
Noun
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

bo·nus
/ˈbōnəs/
Noun
1.A payment or gift added to what is usual or expected, in particular.

The reward is for killing monsters, the bonus is getting something a little more. You get rewarded for killing monsters via XP, you get a bonus by getting drops. They are very similar, I will give you that. Loot is by definition a Bonus, and not a Reward.

On your first point, I would love to see it. Its just highly unlikely given most of their friends would be in instanced or that almost all parties would be instanced. They would have to bite the bullet eventually.

I think the timers for items could use adjusting. Longer, mostly. PoE being a beta, and server-based, and not having the vast resources of a larger company, there tends to be a lot of lag.

Like, a lot. Not just ping lag, but FPS drops from the large number of effects PoE squeezes into 6-player games.

Often, a player can be nearby and see his item and have the intent on picking it up -- only to be faced with a 1-second delay before moving, and another delay between clicking the item and picking it up. All while the timer winds down.

So ultimately some arbitrary increase will work. 25%-40% on nearby item timers. Everything else can stay the same. It helps with path issues, considering that wooden cart shouldn't prevent me from getting my rare. That's not a challenge, that's poor implementation and idealistic game feel.

It also helps with people complaining about ninja-ing gear, considering they have more time to get the item. Not too much time though, since you're chasing after a cut-throat feel.

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IceLancerSR wrote:

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Reedman wrote:

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MrNecro wrote:

Loot options are lame. You already have options.

If instanced loot becomes available no one will play FFA loot. Its as simple as that.


So called FFA defenders maybe assholes. But,, they are not stupid. And it would be pointless to have both in this game unless FFA has some HUGE benefit.

Besides calling FFA defenders assholes is kind of stupid since the creators of the games are FFA supporters.

Sorry, what? I'll keep playing FFA loot if options are presented. Plenty of people would. FFA already does have huge benefits. If I pay attention more than the other players I get all the loot.

OH wow i see
SO you are one of the NON-PLAYERS?

oh let me rephrase that:
U do not care about MOBS or FIGHT or PARTY
all you care is Looking at ground for loot all the time ignoring the fight all together and when something drop u JUMP and usually pick it up Before the any other person EVEN notice what was in the loot cause they were too damn busy with fight and or spammed with tons of spamming skills and shit all over the screen to notice?

GG to your play i have seen plenty of those blood suckers such as u

Way to miss the point of my post. I've been supporting looting options from the very start. Yes when I group with other players who do the same, that is exactly what I and the whole party do. I DON'T join players parties that assign loot to name because I'm not a jerk.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

Statements like that is why it's so hard to take the pro-FFA side seriously. But you guys keep saying the craziest shit.

You seem to like facts, so here are some:
People will play FFA even if there are loot options. That's a fact because people have said that they will in this very thread.

Loot is a reward. That you can kill monsters and not get loot could not be more irrelevant. You can find a lost kitten and return it without getting something, does that mean that if return a lost kitten and get some money that is not a reward? No, obviously not. A reward is a reward, IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL if you get it everytime or not.
Also, why the heck do you make a distinction between bonus and reward? If you get a bonus then THAT IS YOUR REWARD.
Do you even know that the word reward means?

I have a minute, and I'll respond to this because you called me out on it.

re·ward
/riˈwôrd/
Noun
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

bo·nus
/ˈbōnəs/
Noun
1.A payment or gift added to what is usual or expected, in particular.

The reward is for killing monsters, the bonus is getting something a little more. You get rewarded for killing monsters via XP, you get a bonus by getting drops. They are very similar, I will give you that. Loot is by definition a Bonus, and not a Reward.

On your first point, I would love to see it. Its just highly unlikely given most of their friends would be in instanced or that almost all parties would be instanced. They would have to bite the bullet eventually.

Wait, wait, wait. So, you don't expect to receive loot from killing monsters? You only expect XP? So every time loot drops it's like a little party? Sorry, but you're splitting hairs again here.

I would point you to a boss fight. Give me a boss where loot doesn't drop. Every. Time. You. Kill. Them. How is this not a reward for killing the boss? Seems to fulfill the criteria. I would refer you to my earlier post. If loot is indeed a bonus and not a reward, then you should be able to beat the game without it. Should you not? I mean surely if you don't expect loot, then the game should be perfectly playable without picking any of it up.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

"

Sickness wrote:

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

Statements like that is why it's so hard to take the pro-FFA side seriously. But you guys keep saying the craziest shit.

You seem to like facts, so here are some:
People will play FFA even if there are loot options. That's a fact because people have said that they will in this very thread.

Loot is a reward. That you can kill monsters and not get loot could not be more irrelevant. You can find a lost kitten and return it without getting something, does that mean that if return a lost kitten and get some money that is not a reward? No, obviously not. A reward is a reward, IT DOESN'T MATTER AT ALL if you get it everytime or not.
Also, why the heck do you make a distinction between bonus and reward? If you get a bonus then THAT IS YOUR REWARD.
Do you even know that the word reward means?

I have a minute, and I'll respond to this because you called me out on it.

re·ward
/riˈwôrd/
Noun
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

bo·nus
/ˈbōnəs/
Noun
1.A payment or gift added to what is usual or expected, in particular.

The reward is for killing monsters, the bonus is getting something a little more. You get rewarded for killing monsters via XP, you get a bonus by getting drops. They are very similar, I will give you that. Loot is by definition a Bonus, and not a Reward.

On your first point, I would love to see it. Its just highly unlikely given most of their friends would be in instanced or that almost all parties would be instanced. They would have to bite the bullet eventually.

you pretty much owned yourself there

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re·ward
/riˈwôrd/
Noun
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

i offered service (dps the mob) , effort (dps the mob) or achievement (i dps hard and learned the mechanics of a boss) thus i have to take the reward (loot)

treating the EXP as the only reward ..... then is the worst game design and decision in the gaming industry (worster from jay wilson's ones)
lol man...you cant' even get your own facts straight....lol

loot IS the reward end of story...now IF GGG want to reinvent the wheel (loot become another "fight" mechanic) so be it...but do not expect that many people will bite on that when in the last 10 years (at least) the item/loot is a reward for dpsing/healing/tanking

XP
Experience.
When you do a thing (usually the same) over and over you get more experienced at doing it.
Meaning youre doing it faster, safer and with better end-results.

So experience is a natural intrinsic consequence of doing the same thing over and over and getting better and better at it.

In the game, because all you do is fighting monsters you are getting better and better at doing this therefore you are more and more experienced doing this that translates in you getting better end-results: more (quality) loot - shiny things.

So, to conclude, the reward of the game is the loot.
Nothing really extraordinary since the game is arpg where itemization (loot) is everything.

Now, i've seen many so called arguments that are easily addressable because their profound lack of logic.

One of the cultists has gone so far in stating that "the reward is you not dying".
And if this was not bad enough he even embarrassed himself by presenting this as the absolute truth ;)

I can safely say that the current top of the most absurd and pure-nonsense ffa-addicts-"argumentation" is this:
1. the reward is you not dying /// xp is reward, loot is bonus
2. if loot-options are implemented then nobody will play ffa anymore
3. options are bad for the game.

These individuals completely lost it. I suggest for them to check their "attic", seems it desperately needs professional attention.
Hence the perfect comparison with a brainwashed religious cult.

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Kalriostraz wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

<some snippage>


Wait, wait, wait. So, you don't expect to receive loot from killing monsters? You only expect XP?


I would point you to a boss fight. Give me a boss where loot doesn't drop. Every. Time.

I mean surely if you don't expect loot, then the game should be perfectly playable without picking any of it up.

Even the hard hearted captain of the ship realizes the exile needs some gear to help him along and allows a weapon.

*sarcasm on*

Hmmm, maybe we've all been just a little too selfish and greedy and instead of complaining about FFA loot, we should be complaining about instanced experience point gain!

How non-cut throat is that?

We should have FFA experience! XP tension would really make this a cut throat game! While one player is scrambling for the chance orb, another would be grabbing the 2.5K xp orb. If you are too slow or lagged or whatever, you would stay low level forever!

Hmm, maybe add some pick pocketing skills and lock picking skills, then we could have stash security tension.

Now if we only had some calculus story problems it would be the perfect game!


*sarcasm off*

Better gear part of the equation that lets you proceed in the game. For most players a certain amount of gear improvement is a necessity, and this is part of the game design.

The underlying problem was created long before GGG. Item collecting should be after the battle, not during.

Everquest had the correct solution - but it would be far too slow for a faster paced game, and not nearly random enough for POE.

Finding the right loot drop/allocation system for POE is like learning to tie a shoe lace -frustrating, but once figured out it will seem so natural to the players, that everyone will think it was easy to do.

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MrNecro wrote:

If instanced loot becomes available no one will play FFA loot. Its as simple as that.

Why would that be? If FFA is so great, than why wouldn't a bunch of people go for it?

Even blood thirsty cut throat pirates had loot rules. The so called loot-ninjas would be marooned or shot.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

I have a minute, and I'll respond to this because you called me out on it.

re·ward
/riˈwôrd/
Noun
A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement.

bo·nus
/ˈbōnəs/
Noun
1.A payment or gift added to what is usual or expected, in particular.

The reward is for killing monsters, the bonus is getting something a little more. You get rewarded for killing monsters via XP, you get a bonus by getting drops. They are very similar, I will give you that. Loot is by definition a Bonus, and not a Reward.

lol, how does loot not fall under "A thing given in recognition of service, effort, or achievement."?
Why can something not be a reward and a bonus at the same time?
Is loot unexpected or unusual?

You are really trying too hard.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

On your first point, I would love to see it. Its just highly unlikely given most of their friends would be in instanced or that almost all parties would be instanced. They would have to bite the bullet eventually.

Pure speculation that from every point of data we have seem to be wrong.