Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

You answered yourself. The developers of this game want you to act in such a way, as to be distracted by shiny things, and to take as much as you can get. Its up to us, the players, to determine how we play. The lack of control in this game must really bother you.

If the devs made this game for anti-social twats then that would explain why I'm really not enjoying it right now.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

1 Everyone has the same chance. You're grasping at straws with this "play style" argument.

Everyone does not have the same chance and I don't know how you don't see different playstyles being disucussed here. There is a HUGE difference between a group of players focusing completely on cooperating to kill the monsters and a group of players focusing on being the first to run up and click on an item. Thats two different playstyles and some people really like one and some people really like the other.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

2. There's downsides to differing builds. You are far away, you get less loot. The timer was added to allow you to get more. Its FFA after all, the game does not care what reasons you have for not being by the loot. It just knows that you didn't pick it up in time. Once you guys accept that you will get less drops by not being anywhere near the loot, you may try running up to get said loot. Hard to understand, I know, you have to click on loot to get it.

I submit that a downside to a build should never be less of a chance to get the biggest reward for playing the game. Thats my playstyle choice which this game gives me in the form of single player and private games.

The timer was added in an attempt to compensate for range and lag (Does not succeed IMO), a misconception some people have is that its there to help people get more loot and I disagree with that assessment. It was only placed for certain players and NOT for every player to have a fair chance. The current timer is too short to give everyone a "fair" chance to get anything that drops with their name.

It amuses me how people continually think that palyers are choosing to NOT run up and get the loot. Please quote one person in this thread who has ever complained about missing a drop and also DID NOT immediately try to run up and get the item. Your still trying to assume that players who immediately run to the loot will always get it. Thats not the case at all. I continually have less respect for anyone in here who says crap like "you have to click on the loot to get" Really??? No Shit!

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

3. No argument here. Riskier builds are up close.

This isn't even always true. My tanky templar is safer than even most ranged players that I know. I am currently not playing my summoner because he has a far greater chance of dieing in maps than my up close templar does! So I guess my templar is not only safer but has a clear edge in obtaining loot in public games.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

4. It means an archer in the current meta game "can" get up in the monsters face if he so chooses, which can be risky and rewarding.

And also a dumb way to play a ranged class. But I guess that archer is forced to change up his playstyle in order to have a chance at the loot in public games.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

5. You explained why its obvious. They clicked on an item before you. Hard to accept, I know.

I asked you to explain why its obvious in the context of this game(as a whole) that players DESERVE loot just by being the first person to get to it. Still waiting on a decent answer. Its obvious to me that its very unintuitive and confusing to the playerbase that public games is like that. (See every confused player in this thread and every confused player in the multitude of other looting threads that are now locked).

"

XCodes wrote:

Both of you shut up about whether the looting is "fair" or not, because frankly it's obvious that you define the word differently. What's more, if anyone says that "loot system X is Fair," then frankly I'm going to call bullshit on you. A party that runs through an act will encounter hundreds, if not thousands, of randomly-generated currency items, magical items, rare items, and unique items, and in order for this system to be perfectly, absolutely fair, it will have to take into assign some kind of universal value to each of these items calculated based on their mods, sockets, and how high the roll is, and then weight the value of it towards each party member based on their spec, the specs of their alts, and so on and so fourth.

I believe that randomness is fair. Same reason why playing the lottery is fair to everyone. Everyone has the exact same chance of winning. This looting system will always be slanted in many ways. So ya IMO its not "fair".

"

Everyone does not have the same chance and I don't know how you don't see different playstyles being disucussed here. There is a HUGE difference between a group of players focusing completely on cooperating to kill the monsters and a group of players focusing on being the first to run up and click on an item. Thats two different playstyles and some people really like one and some people really like the other.

If I click on said item, I pick it up. If you do, you pick it up. You're discussing play style vs game mechanics. Play style has to adapt to game mechanics, not the other way around. This system is still fair, in the sense that you and I can both pick up items if we so choose. Your play style is your only draw back, and that is entirely your choice.

"

I submit that a downside to a build should never be less of a chance to get the biggest reward for playing the game. Thats my playstyle choice which this game gives me in the form of single player and private games.

Then you need loot to be teleported to you. In a FFA environment being safer may have less rewards. You have to deal with that as part of your play style choice. Its a choice entirely placed on you.

"

The timer was added in an attempt to compensate for range and lag (Does not succeed IMO), a misconception some people have is that its there to help people get more loot and I disagree with that assessment. It was only placed for certain players and NOT for every player to have a fair chance. The current timer is too short to give everyone a "fair" chance to get anything that drops with their name.

You just said that it helps ranged get more loot. Then you disagreed with it. Then said its not for everyone which implies ranged. Which gives ranged fair chance at loot at the cost of being risky. We both agree the timer is too short, given the current lag situation.

"

It amuses me how people continually think that palyers are choosing to NOT run up and get the loot. Please quote one person in this thread who has ever complained about missing a drop and also DID NOT immediately try to run up and get the item. Your still trying to assume that players who immediately run to the loot will always get it. Thats not the case at all. I continually have less respect for anyone in here who says crap like "you have to click on the loot to get" Really??? No Shit!

Since most people complaining are complaining about melee getting more drops, I have to assume you are not running up do to it effecting your play style.

I am not here to garner your respect. I am an advocate of a system you want to effectively remove due to it not coinciding with your play style and not for any real applicable reason.

"

This isn't even always true. My tanky templar is safer than even most ranged players that I know. I am currently not playing my summoner because he has a far greater chance of dieing in maps than my up close templar does! So I guess my templar is not only safer but has a clear edge in obtaining loot in public games.

Its still true. By saying Tanky, I assume you built it full on defensive. Which is not the case for all melee builds. You just devalued kill speed for survivability. Which is again, your choice and a good one for getting drops and not dying. You are still at more risk than ranged in the sense you are up close and they are not. Proximity is everything.

"

And also a dumb way to play a ranged class. But I guess that archer is forced to change up his playstyle in order to have a chance at the loot in public games.

Yup. Finally getting it. You have to take a risk to get stuff, as does everyone else.

"

asked you to explain why its obvious in the context of this game(as a whole) that players DESERVE loot just by being the first person to get to it. Still waiting on a decent answer. Its obvious to me that its very unintuitive and confusing to the playerbase that public games is like that. (See every confused player in this thread and every confused player in the multitude of other looting threads that are now locked).

I swear sometimes you are trolling me. Re read what you wrote, and explain how, if I click on something first, its not mine but instead actually yours.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

"

iamstryker

1 Everyone has the same chance. You're grasping at straws with this "play style" argument.

2. There's downsides to differing builds. You are far away, you get less loot. The timer was added to allow you to get more. Its FFA after all, the game does not care what reasons you have for not being by the loot. It just knows that you didn't pick it up in time. Once you guys accept that you will get less drops by not being anywhere near the loot, you may try running up to get said loot. Hard to understand, I know, you have to click on loot to get it.

3. No argument here. Riskier builds are up close.

4. It means an archer in the current meta game "can" get up in the monsters face if he so chooses, which can be risky and rewarding.

5. You explained why its obvious. They clicked on an item before you. Hard to accept, I know.

jackel loot is the reward for killing a npc...seriously get some facts straight.....
since i dont' get reward dealing 2x dmg of someone else then at least i must be able to get at least the same loot while carrying the group...seriously are you so blind?

5. yeah that's exactly the concept of multiplayer gaming of PoE....clickfest...if GGG's dream is to turn poe into a clickfest contest so be it....i can smash zombies in my mobile tho (same concept). I really do not get WHY people believe that clickfest is...cool and good game design....i really do not get it...

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

If I click on said item, I pick it up. If you do, you pick it up. You're discussing play style vs game mechanics. Play style has to adapt to game mechanics, not the other way around. This system is still fair, in the sense that you and I can both pick up items if we so choose. Your play style is your only draw back, and that is entirely your choice.

This game is catering to only one playstyle ONLY in public games. That is simply dumb given that this game is not only a competitive game. That is my assessment and why I continually bring up playstyle. If GGG doesn't want fans of my playstyle in their game then they should say so. They claim to be discussing the issue so right now I am assuming that they do want us here.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Then you need loot to be teleported to you. In a FFA environment being safer may have less rewards. You have to deal with that as part of your play style choice. Its a choice entirely placed on you.

I don't know why your arguing with my personal opinion? I know what an FFA environment is and I think it sucks. I definitely don't need you to explain it to me. People of my playstyle simply won't play in public games, why? because they don't find it to be a fair or fun system. Its that simple.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

You just said that it helps ranged get more loot. Then you disagreed with it. Then said its not for everyone which implies ranged. Which gives ranged fair chance at loot at the cost of being risky. We both agree the timer is too short, given the current lag situation.

I was pretty clear in what I said. The timer is only to help for certain situations and NOT to help EVERYONE get their loot. Increasing the timer would damper the whole competitive part of FFA which is one reason the devs and FFA supporters don't want it to be extended.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Since most people complaining are complaining about melee getting more drops, I have to assume you are not running up do to it effecting your play style.

Most people? That's only one complaint out of many. Your assumption is simply not true. Melee just have an easier time getting their drops and ninjaing others, because they just happen to be closer to the action. IMO thats a stupid system.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

I am not here to garner your respect. I am an advocate of a system you want to effectively remove due to it not coinciding with your play style and not for any real applicable reason.

Its hard for me to take what you say at all seriously in this discussion if your saying "guys you need to pick up the drops!". As if a bunch of people reading this are going to slap their foreheads "OHHHH now I get it, thats why I haven't been getting any loot, I have to click on it and pick it up!!!" hurrrrrrrrrrrrr

Oh and your completely incorrect in saying that I want to remove FFA. Not true at all. And playstyle is a very applicable reason to the current population of this game.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Yup. Finally getting it. You have to take a risk to get stuff, as does everyone else.

Its funny that you agree an archer has to play in a "dumb" fashion in order to have a fair chance at the loot. Says a lot about FFA.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

I swear sometimes you are trolling me. Re read what you wrote, and explain how, if I click on something first, its not mine but instead actually yours.

Maybe you should reread what I asked and ask yourself if you at all answered my question. I will post it again. Why is it OBVIOUS in the context of this GAME AS A WHOLE that players DESERVE loot just by being the first person to get to it. Still waiting on a decent answer.

The bolded words are important....

Double

I'll only respond to things that are not personal opinion then. Since those are not debatable. Carrying on:

"

This game is catering to only one playstyle ONLY in public games. That is simply dumb given that this game is not only a competitive game. That is my assessment and why I continually bring up playstyle. If GGG doesn't want fans of my playstyle in their game then they should say so. They claim to be discussing the issue so right now I am assuming that they do want us here.

I agree, its the play style the development team wanted in the beginning. If they change it, I'm fine with that. Its their game, after all.

"

I was pretty clear in what I said. The timer is only to help for certain situations and NOT to help EVERYONE get their loot. Increasing the timer would damper the whole competitive part of FFA which is one reason the devs and FFA supporters don't want it to be extended.

It is there to help the loot system be more fair to ranged. It does its job. No need to debate further on this subject, as only opinion will come out of it.

"

Most people? That's only one complaint out of many. Your assumption is simply not true. Melee just have an easier time getting their drops and ninjaing others, because they just happen to be closer to the action. IMO thats a stupid system.

Again, risk vs reward. If the melees keep stealing all the drops just let them die. Being closer to mobs allows that to easily happen.

"

Its hard for me to take what you say at all seriously in this discussion if your saying "guys you need to pick up the drops!". As if a bunch of people reading this are going to slap their foreheads "OHHHH now I get it, thats why I haven't been getting any loot, I have to click on it and pick it up!!!" hurrrrrrrrrrrrr

Play style, play style, play style. Then when I tell you to change your play style to better utilize the system in place, you get defensive.

"

Its funny that you agree an archer has to play in a "dumb" fashion in order to have a fair chance at the loot. Says a lot about FFA.

Its not dumb. Its just risky.

"

Maybe you should reread what I asked and ask yourself if you at all answered my question. I will post it again. Why is it OBVIOUS in the context of this GAME AS A WHOLE that players DESERVE loot just by being the first person to get to it. Still waiting on a decent answer.

The bolded words are important....

Again, you make no sense. They DESERVE IT BECAUSE THEY CLICKED IT FIRST. THAT IS THE ENIRE REASON WHY THEY GET THE LOOT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Please answer the question: Why do you deserve to get loot that I clicked on first?

Edit:

Will check in the morning. Time to sleep since its 2am here.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

I agree, its the play style the development team wanted in the beginning. If they change it, I'm fine with that. Its their game, after all.

Great. Your officially more reasonable than 90% of the other FFA supporters.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Again, risk vs reward. If the melees keep stealing all the drops just let them die. Being closer to mobs allows that to easily happen.

Let them die is an option? What about the ones that basically never die?

I will never be able to agree that its good design for players to feel pushed into a certain class/playstyle in order to be able to get drops. If some people like that then thats fine, maybe the devs will add looting options so that both sides are satisfied? What a fantastic idea!

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Play style, play style, play style. Then when I tell you to change your play style to better utilize the system in place, you get defensive.

Why would I do that? I obviously don't think thats fun or remotely interesting so I guess I never play in public games. I wonder if I am the only one doing that.....hmmmmmmmm

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Its not dumb. Its just risky.

IMO its dumb. Dieing in this game isn't exactly free. May as well avoid loot competition, get ALL of the drops, and not take stupid risks. Private games are by far the safest, easiest way to play the game.

Edit: BTW I don't play in many private games either. Its fun to solo and more challenging.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Again, you make no sense. They DESERVE IT BECAUSE THEY CLICKED IT FIRST. THAT IS THE ENIRE REASON WHY THEY GET THE LOOT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

And your trying to argue that its obvious to the playerbase that they DESERVE the loot by clicking it first. This is not true. The playerbase is confused by this strange design. They feel that they deserve that piece of loot that dropped WITH THEIR NAME ON IT. They stopped what they were doing (playing the game) and rushed over to get it. However somehow that loot was still snagged by another player. Was it obvious to them that this was the design and intent of public games?? Apparently not. So I submit to you that its not OBVIOUS as to who DESERVES it. Its only obvious to you, because you like FFA. What a new player thinks of the system is very important. As I have said before its unintuitive and confusing.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Please answer the question: Why do you deserve to get loot that I clicked on first?

Because IMO your clicking the loot first means nothing as to who deserves it. In this game loot is conveniently divied up with our names on it. This is the easiest way for all contributing players to get their fair share of what drops. Its still random but its fair. Thats why you see the NO NINJA public games. People like that. It makes sense to them. I don't at all think you deserve everything that falls just because you get to it first. You deserve a fair share, nothing more.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Will check in the morning. Time to sleep since its 2am here.

I am not in the position to sleep or play the game so I don't have much better to do.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

Again, you make no sense. They DESERVE IT BECAUSE THEY CLICKED IT FIRST. THAT IS THE ENTIRE REASON WHY THEY GET THE LOOT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Please answer the question: Why do you deserve to get loot that I clicked on first?

Counter-question: Why does you clicking on it first mean you deserve it? Does it not matter that I helped down the boss? Does it not matter that I helped down the trash? Does it not matter that, if nothing else, you wouldn't have cleared it in anywhere near the time you did with my help? Nor, in fact, perhaps even seen that loot to begin with if I hadn't been there?

If you can honestly answer no to all of those, then I concede. All that matters is that you have the money in the real world to afford a good machine and internet, and play a melee character. If you hesitate on even one, then I propose we need a better system in some way.

If you want you're close to full FFA without ranged feeling like they're getting the short end of the stick for playing safer and (theoretically) contributing more damage, how about this:

When loot drops no one can collect it. There is a hidden timer that will start counting down, ranging from oh say 3 seconds to 6 seconds (might need adjustment, but I trust you get the point) at which point it becomes available to all. Thus game play style no longer becomes the deciding factor. Instead it's connection speed, and computer power. Which, after all, are what winning a true FFA loot is all about. I could personally see this being ok IF AN ONLY IF GGG manages to create stable connections for the vast majority of players, and set up graphic options for mid- to low-end PCs to run this at a decent frame rate.

Honestly I see that system flying about as well as the current one. But I also feel the way to originally go would have been either instanced loot, or what we have without the timers. I'm not a fan of FFA because it encourages play style not conducive to group play.

Perhaps we need a league for full FFA and a league for assigned drops. Probably been suggested, but would be my preferred solution to this.