Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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iamstryker wrote:

Why does you clicking on it first mean you deserve it? Does it not matter that I helped down the boss? Does it not matter that I helped down the trash? Does it not matter that, if nothing else, you wouldn't have cleared it in anywhere near the time you did with my help? Nor, in fact, perhaps even seen that loot to begin with if I hadn't been there?

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No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.


I know, i know, Its so complicated to understand its mind blowing.

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MrNecro wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Why does you clicking on it first mean you deserve it? Does it not matter that I helped down the boss? Does it not matter that I helped down the trash? Does it not matter that, if nothing else, you wouldn't have cleared it in anywhere near the time you did with my help? Nor, in fact, perhaps even seen that loot to begin with if I hadn't been there?

No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.

And yet, when I solo, I get rewarded with dropped loot when I down bosses or trash mobs.

But if I do this in a group environment, those same efforts are no longer deserving?

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MrNecro wrote:

No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.


I know, i know, Its so complicated to understand its mind blowing.

Yeah, it's mindblowing alright!
So now loot isn't a reward? You would say anything to defend FFa loot, wouldn't you?

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I don't. But I feel that in a group I should still get some of the decent loot as a range player. Because otherwise what's the point of playing ranged if you never get anything? Besides, who says I didn't click it? Hell I could have even clicked it first, but because you're closer you get it.

Even if we're both melee you could get it first just by virtue of having the money in the real world to have a better computer and/or internet connection.

It's not that I/we don't understand or "grasp" the concept of FFA, and if that's the way GGG wants their game to be then fine. I'll personally never join a public party with a character who fights from range. But the fact that they implemented timers at all, and that they state to be discussing the system, says to me they are at least considering another style.

Honestly, you seem to have zero faith in your own system if you think no one will use it just because there's another option. To me it's the same as HC. It's not for everyone, but the people who enjoy it will continue to utilize it, and those who don't...won't. Simple as that.

Thanks for being honest with your answer. All ranged characters have the same drawback, and it does indeed suck at times. Once the game is more mature and they utilize better path finding chances are the timer system will be much better for ranged then it is now.

Its not that I don't have faith in it. I just understand people will use the easier option. I hate to say it, but that guy with more money will get more. Connection wise on your end is not the developers problem and neither is your computer. Only thing the developers can do graphics wise is add particle options for that.

You can get loot as a ranged, you just at times might have to go outside of your safe zone to do it, just like all ranged characters.

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Sickness wrote:

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MrNecro wrote:

No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.


I know, i know, Its so complicated to understand its mind blowing.

Yeah, it's mindblowing alright!
So now loot isn't a reward? You would say anything to defend FFa loot, wouldn't you?

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

Stopped my Ranger char at lvl 74 and started a tanky Templar a few days ago, loot problems like i had with my Ranger is no more, havent died once until end act 3 cruel, and it seems it wont happen any time soon.

There are surely lag issues and other technical issues with looting like clicking on your own loot 10 times and you wont get it, but as is said it works now much smoother with a tanky melee char.

So if i'm getting it right; solo is made for ranged chars (if anyhow) and for co-op groups we're going to start with a melee to make sure you get your loot more often, so that's the concept i guess, good job GGG! Hardcore and such :)


Sounds like total variety and diversity to me *cough*

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

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MrNecro wrote:

No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.


I know, i know, Its so complicated to understand its mind blowing.

Yeah, it's mindblowing alright!
So now loot isn't a reward? You would say anything to defend FFa loot, wouldn't you?

Loot is a bonus, not a reward. Xp is the reward for killing monsters. You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus.

Sorry, but how or why is loot not a reward? Without loot you can't progress. That's where "gear check" came from, and is what most bosses boil down to if you're gonna be honest. Gear and build check. If one or the other isn't good enough, you're not doing it. Or at least not in any kind of decent time or death number.

"You can kill monsters and not get loot, thus, bonus." That's scraping the line very closely. Minor technicality. It's an ARPG, loot is what lets you progress. You can't kill monsters without loot, yet you say loot is not a reward for killing monsters. If true, I challenge you to play through and see how far you can get, only picking up white items. Note "currency" is not included in this. No orbs, no scrolls. Only white equipment. Note I'm being generous. If loot isn't a reward for killing monsters and is indeed a simple bonus, then you shouldn't ever be required to pick it up to advance, right?

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Its not that I don't have faith in it. I just understand people will use the easier option...

Yeah, people will use the "easier" option. But again, it's not like no one will use the FFA options if multiple loot options were implemented. That's like saying no one would play HC if permadeath existed because it's easier to play default league. Which I can only assume we both know is false, and if you don't think so then perhaps we've found the fundamental location we can't agree on.

Options simply allow the game to draw in a wider audience. How is this a bad thing? Unless you want the game to go belly up, which I'm again assuming from your supporter tag you don't.

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Sickness wrote:

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MrNecro wrote:

No one deserves dropped loot. Thats why the 1st person to pick it up owns it.

And no it doesn't matter you helped down the boss or down the trash mobs. Not dying and getting exp is the reward for that. Not loot drops.


I know, i know, Its so complicated to understand its mind blowing.

Yeah, it's mindblowing alright!
So now loot isn't a reward? You would say anything to defend FFa loot, wouldn't you?

Wow, speaking the truth sure winds you up the wrong way.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

1. You seem to fail at reading comprehension. Instanced loot has the least amount of interaction gameplay wise. Its the lowest common denominator. Its effectively single player with more people. Nice insult by the way.

I'll just declare victory, here, since this is probably the one paragraph that really doesn't need rebuttal.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

If people wouldn't complain about the less drops, sure that's true. D3 was a prime example of that. Would you rather have lots of loot drop, and get a bit of it. Or barely any loot drop, and get it all? Remember, you need your own Item Quantity, and Item Quality in instanced vs Killing blow in FFA.

First, the bolded segment is a strawman argument. IIR/IIQ can work with whatever looting system however the devs want it to. As for the rest, there are plenty of people who complain about the massive loot explosions after a boss fight. So much crap comes out of those oversized pinatas that you can't even tell if there's any good stuff, much less where it is.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

The only time I ever had trouble talking to people in D2 was late game Boss rushing. If you actually played the game and didn't rush the entire time, you would find more then enough people were social and out going.

Loot systems and how much people talk have nothing at all to do with each other. Fact is, in D2 people just took the loot they wanted. There was almost no discussion at all about who wanted what unless a cheap set item dropped and someone who was working towards a particular low-level set wanted it, like Death's Touch or something. That's what I meant about having virtually no social interaction.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Stop grasping at straws, you know as well as I do that a majority of players would play what's easiest and most cost effective. I am all for increasing the timers until the lag is sorted out. Just not instanced.

Wrong. Everyone would play the way that's the most fun, and everyone has their own perspective on what's fun. Lots of people think easy and cost effective is fun, but as I've already pointed out (and you failed to argue against) was that there is no method that's inherently more cost-effective than another. People could perceive any method to be more cost effective for them and play that way, but at that point it's basically random what style of looting they ultimately settle on.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

you know as well as I do that a majority of players would play what's easiest and most cost effective. I am all for increasing the timers until the lag is sorted out. Just not instanced.

Or maybe.....JUST maybe.....Its what they actually enjoy.

Increasing the timers to where it would actually make a difference would essentially be an instanced non competitive system.