Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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PAX_ wrote:

In all games that i played, i have no problems to make buddys on my Friendlist. But thies FFA System hinders the people to socialise.

My 5 mates in a 6 player groupe are not friends, they are all Loot Enemies.
I can`t understud for what thies system are good?

Also, that a Marauder have more risk and more oportunity to grab all the 4-6L white Items, its that a design joke?

I like many mecanics in thies game, but i dont understud what GGG has thinking.

They testet the system only whit fanboys and friends?

Dont know. Its sad and in the long therm, why should peoples play a game, that antisocialise?

The system doesn't hinder the social aspect. Not adapting to the system does. You can be friends, and "loot enemies" at the same time, you know. If your not competitive, just pick up what you can. If you are, pick up what ever you can get your greedy hands on.

Don't let the game hold you back on being social, the only roadblock is yourself.

On the Marauder point. If you are not on the front lines, and not willing run up to grab something you may be interested in you will lose the item. If you like that idea, roll a melee character. If you don't like the risk , roll ranged. The system is not stopping you from getting drops.

CB was pretty much completely randomly chosen forum users, minus the people that donated to get in and people that codes from said people. This is the phase on getting an opinion and interest in a larger population, hence open beta. More people, more feedback, and more testing.

If they ever changed the system, I would accept it. I just don't feel its likely.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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cowkingmoo wrote:

The problem is that even if it were true (he has a higher chance of dying) it doesn't serve as a good metric for determining how rewards should be split between players. Just because he's more at risk doesn't mean he's contributing anything to the group, or has greater value than a ranged player. That marauder could be hypothetically doing absolutely nothing (little damage, not stunning, not double cursing, etc.) but he gets all the whites just because he has a higher chance of dying? That doesn't really make sense.

Edit:

Your posts boil down to risk vs reward, and non contributing members of parties. It seems the boot option should be used more for the latter.

He is for sure taking more risk then you. You want those items, go pick them up.

This system is pretty much the best loot system I have every played in a Hack and slash. Even with its flaws (timer could be extended about 2 seconds) it allows ranged characters to pick up loot.

You used to have to make a sorc/WW in D2 to farm loot for your ranged character.

Also, I had to post. Too many negative posts in a row. It seems the pro ffa people have stepped out. At least the guy giving the sides colors has stopped. That got lame real fast.

More risk? No, not really. Once again, more to do with build and itemization. Even if certain builds do take more risk, it has nothing to loot issues and more over, doesn't automatically mean they deserve to take those items from other people. Booting players is unrelated as well. If anything, it currently being used as a bandaid for underlying problems with FFA.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

I don't understand why you feel you deserve the option to disable a core feature the game is designed around.

I don't see how anyone can argue that the game is DESIGNED AROUND FFA. How exactly is it designed around FFA? The developers intended us to compete with eachother so who is competeing? People in single player? Nope. People in Private games? No, unless there is some kind of weird rare exception out there. People avoid loot competition all of the time in this game so how exactly is it a CORE feature? I disable it all of the time by NOT joining public games.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

I think instanced loot has spoiled a lot of you, and you cannot accept that this is how the game is intended.

Why exactly should people accept it? The devs leave this thread to run forever and only ever reply by saying thanks for the feedback and the system could always change in the future. Then they say that they are having an internal discussion about it.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

If you lack the foresight to get partied and make friends with like minded people, you will be alone. Which, you will blame on the game not being as friendly to random pubs. Since those people in those games may or may not have an agenda that matches yours, so chances are they feel no remorse on taking drops you are not willing to rush to pickup.

Partying with friends does not solve the issue as has been explained many times.

Don't act like this system is fair to ranged players if they simply "rush to pickup", people lose drops plenty even if they rush to pick up. And no its not cool that you should have to risk your life and change your chosen play style just to have a chance at getting a share of the good loot that you earned by being a contributing member of the group.

double post

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Iamstryker

1. If it was not designed around the system, why have they been soo stubborn to just change it? If it was as easy as you guys say, what would stop them from implementing the system you guys want?

Because it is how they want the game. The game was designed with FFA in mind. Just because you are not playing party games, does not mean other people are not. I can log in, and see tons of pub games. Seems people are playing the way the game was designed.

2. Point taken. Just remember that this thread is a containment tool as well.

3. Its perfectly fair. You are playing a build that kills from afar. Apart from having the loot teleport to your side, you will never get everything. If you are not willing to risk death to get items, don't complain when others are.

Again, this loot system is entirely by choice. You have every opportunity to stop attacking for 3 seconds and grab something that interests you, and no one can say otherwise. I fully support adding 2 or so seconds to the timer to account for sync issues and such.

Edit: had forgotten how the quote tags work..

Edit2: Since I am going to sleep, I'll respond soon as I can. I feel that since this topic isn't moving at 15 pages a day now I might actually be able to have a discussion on this.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

If your not competitive, just pick up what you can.
If you are, pick up what ever you can get your greedy hands on.

A new term for greediness: competitive.
Yes, that's what it is, hiding your core greediness (a defect) by using a lofty term: being competitive.
I like that.

Also, on the subject of risk vs reward:
A marauder being closer to the mobs is not in the risk of dying because he is specced to do exactly that.
It is exactly his core purpose, to be a tank closer to the mobs, minimizing his risk of dying as much as possible.
A tank that also uses aoe skills mind you, but closer to the mobs.

This is kinda like a clasic class struggle analogy from real life.
In the end nobody risks more or less, they specialize on a particular skill so the group can be successful.
This means everyone have a right at a slice of the reward. Not a "pick up first" scenario.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

1. If it was not designed around the system, why have they been soo stubborn to just change it? If it was as easy as you guys say, what would stop them from implementing the system you guys want?

Your guess is as good as mine. Maybe their small team has worked so hard on other content that they didn't want to think about the loot system? Maybe they were hoping that at Open beta people wouldn't care that much about it? Nothing is stopping them from implementing another system except themselves.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Because it is how they want the game. The game was designed with FFA in mind. Just because you are not playing party games, does not mean other people are not. I can log in, and see tons of pub games. Seems people are playing the way the game was designed.

Maybe I should go look back at what I wrote but I don't see what this has to do with what I said. Ya some people are playing party games but that doesn't mean its good for the game or that most players stay away from public games because of that system. People are playing it the way that it was designed? Seriously? People make their own games that say that they will kick anyone who plays competitively. Meaning they DO NOT want people to play it the way that it was designed. If FFA is a core feature then also anyone NOT in a public game isn't playing as intended (In almost every case).

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Jackel6672 wrote:

3. Its perfectly fair. You are playing a build that kills from afar. Apart from having the loot teleport to your side, you will never get everything. If you are not willing to risk death to get items, don't complain when others are.

You can argue that its intended but I don't see how its fair at all. Its not fair to ranged to not be able to get rewards for being a contributing part of the group. Everyone risks deaths who is contributing. People should never feel that they have to roll a melee just to have a fair chance or to be a better ninja. I just don't agree. As I said before people do risk it and still miss out on the items with their names. Its not a "fair" system and never will be.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Again, this loot system is entirely by choice. You have every opportunity to stop attacking for 3 seconds and grab something that interests you, and no one can say otherwise. I fully support adding 2 or so seconds to the timer to account for sync issues and such.

2 or 3 seconds more would maybe help in some smaller ways but in the end its not a real compromise between the two different playstyles, that being competitive and non competitive. Non competitive people simply can't play public games because its sucks out all of the fun. This game trys to cater to both pvp and pve players not just one.

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PAX_ wrote:

I like many mecanics in thies game, but i dont understud what GGG has thinking.

They testet the system only whit fanboys and friends?

Dont know. Its sad and in the long therm, why should peoples play a game, that antisocialise?

That was the developer’s first mistake with the loot system. The more exclusive the group the better FFA works. So they tested the system in the alpha realm with their friends and fans. They then assumed that the system would work the same way in the live realm.

Their second mistake was allowing this thread to grow without a public response. Ignoring an issue that deeply affects your customer base is a bad idea for public relations.

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Chris wrote:

As long as you're having fun, I don't mind which way you play :)

hmmm, looking forward and waiting while my chars are parked, how much truth is in chris post

p.s. quoted from the soloraceevent thread today

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Jackel6672 wrote:

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Iamstryker

1. If it was not designed around the system, why have they been soo stubborn to just change it? If it was as easy as you guys say, what would stop them from implementing the system you guys want?

Because it is how they want the game. The game was designed with FFA in mind. Just because you are not playing party games, does not mean other people are not. I can log in, and see tons of pub games. Seems people are playing the way the game was designed.

2. Point taken. Just remember that this thread is a containment tool as well.

3. Its perfectly fair. You are playing a build that kills from afar. Apart from having the loot teleport to your side, you will never get everything. If you are not willing to risk death to get items, don't complain when others are.

Again, this loot system is entirely by choice. You have every opportunity to stop attacking for 3 seconds and grab something that interests you, and no one can say otherwise. I fully support adding 2 or so seconds to the timer to account for sync issues and such.

Edit: had forgotten how the quote tags work..

Edit2: Since I am going to sleep, I'll respond soon as I can. I feel that since this topic isn't moving at 15 pages a day now I might actually be able to have a discussion on this.

to sum it up - 20 parties out of thouthands of people playing is good enough to say the loot system works (even if at least 50% has no-ninja tag and kicking ninjas). its broken but lets not fix it? You gotta realize that this game is trying to give you as much action as possible - forcing you to think about loot as well and stop attacking means you lose on the action in my opinion, unless its trying to be a loot focused ONLY game (but we got d3 for that)

EDIT - I'm not sure who wrote what so i commented it as a whole. After checking it again i see that what POE seems to teach people like Iamstryker is that rangers and witchers and ranged classes in general deserve less and meele is more important?