Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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yastru wrote:

you are thick as a brick. really.
and what do u have to choose from now ?!
why wouldnt they chose ffa loot when they get option to take more loot than they would otherwise get.
i dont want that, i dont want to fight my teammates and jump from battle on every yellow item. i want to do quests and kill monsters, and get my spoils.

that system gives you CHOICE to agree with other players to deal loot based on COMPETITION OR AGREEMENT.

this one doesnt.

is it so hard to understand ?

This one doesn't what? Give an option to make agreement between players?

Then what is your "My name - My loot, your name - your loot"? That's an agreement.

I want the choice to break our agreement if necessary. Your option dosn't offer that. My option offers agreements and competition. Yours only offers a forced agreement.

If you don't want that, go play another game.

That's what I don't get. There are literally hundreds of MMO's out there. Go play those. They have what you want. This game doesn't. Why are you here?

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XCodes wrote:

If you don't like the choices offered by any groups currently available, then make your own group with FFA loot.

Actually, your just made a group that has FFA loot, therefore there is now an FFA loot choice for anyone else who wants to join an FFA loot group.

Like I said before, FFA looting is not competition. Also, having agreements requires people to observe a social contract, which doesn't happen on the internet. Agreements require enforcement mechanisms, and giving the party leader control over the duration of the loot timers enables that mechanism.

But then that doesn't guarantee I have a group. That only gives me the choice to make a group I'm not certain will come.

There's another deeper problem with that. Offering another option besides the one deemed "hardcore" makes the hardcore one pointless to have. In every sense of the word.

Yes, it kinda is. Although, I agree we need an enforcement mechanism, which is why I suggested offering PVP for Loot. That's the best thing, imo, we can do, as long as we do it along with the rest of my suggestion.

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XCodes wrote:

Here's the problem with this line of thought: if you want to ignore their rules and do as you wish, then why should we do as you wish?

We aren't in the game right now. I'm talking about the game itself.

See, I just want choice in the game. To be bad or good, to be a villain or a hero, whatever. I prefer good and hero. But I just want choice. If I'm forced into good and a hero, then there's no point in being either.

Just the same, if we add options and one of those options is "hardcore", then the rest of the options make that hardcore option pointless.

The only thing missing is that "enforcement mechanism" you mentioned. Thus, the PVP for Loot.

Ultimately, what I'm saying is this:

We need choice. FFA provides all the choice we need. We just need an enforcement mechanism. Do away with the timer.

That's it.

In an instanced loot system, everyone is happy.They don't know what others get.The game is still hardcore, everyone focuses on the fight, but you only see your drops.Problem ? No.

In a ffa loot system you can do everything.You can just go in a group, never attack, stand on top of bosses without doing anything unnoticed, and focus looting.

Congratulations, you just won the most hardcore player award.

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dodosuke wrote:

In an instanced loot system, everyone is happy.They don't know what others get.The game is still hardcore, everyone focuses on the fight, but you you only see your drops.Problem ? No.

In a ffa loot system you can do everything.You can just go in a group, never attack, stand on top of bosses without doing anything unnoticed, and focus looting.

Congratulations, you just won the most hardcore player award.

The problem with an instanced loot system is that it cuts away on player interaction. Player interaction the devs want. That's why they want a FFA loot system. So people are either forced to be in competition, or forced to come to an agreement. But they are forced to interact, in other words. How they interact, is the choice.

I want the option of doing nothing. Not that I will ever use it, but I want it.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

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dodosuke wrote:

In an instanced loot system, everyone is happy.They don't know what others get.The game is still hardcore, everyone focuses on the fight, but you you only see your drops.Problem ? No.

In a ffa loot system you can do everything.You can just go in a group, never attack, stand on top of bosses without doing anything unnoticed, and focus looting.

Congratulations, you just won the most hardcore player award.

The problem with an instanced loot system is that it cuts away on player interaction. Player interaction the devs want. That's why they want a FFA loot system. So people are either forced to be in competition, or forced to come to an agreement. But they are forced to interact, in other words. How they interact, is the choice.

I want the option of doing nothing. Not that I will ever use it, but I want it.

Please explain to me how general interaction is related to looting when a mob dies.

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dodosuke wrote:

Please explain to me how general interaction is related to looting when a mob dies.

Define interact, then consider what you do with other players when you are both aiming for the same piece of loot.

Then you will have your answer.

Double post.

I'll use the space anywyay.

The developers want what one player does to effect others. It's a simple as that.

Instanced loot will not effect other players in your group.

FFA loot will.

think real life institutions just say id like it to be this way but if you break it, i cant do shit to you so you better not break it ?

how is it forced if no one forces you to take it ?
how is this system not forced if you dont have a single option to choose otherwise ?

offering another option beside hardcore makes that one pointless to have ? and ffa is not hardcore btw. its an option. a screwed up antisocial option in which u need to be hostile to partymates instead of mobs, in my opinion.

this game now, when u join it, gives u exactly that. 2 options. one named hardcore, one not. so hardcore is now pointless ? go tell that to persons playing it.

and go tell persons playing default that they should get character wipe when they die because, well, so hardcore.

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yastru wrote:

think real life institutions just say id like it to be this way but if you break it, i cant do shit to you so you better not break it ?

how is it forced if no one forces you to take it ?
how is this system not forced if you dont have a single option to choose otherwise ?

offering another option beside hardcore makes that one pointless to have ? and ffa is not hardcore btw. its an option. a screwed up antisocial option in which u need to be hostile to partymates instead of mobs, in my opinion.

this game now, when u join it, gives u exactly that. 2 options. one hardcore, one not. so hardcore is now pointless ? go tell that to persons playing it.

and go tell persons playing default that they should get character wipe when they die because, well, so hardcore.

When did I say "stealing" loot from others, as you like to call it, was forced? You can make an agreement. The loot system needs a way of enforcement. We've mentioned that.

You can choose to steal, or agree to share. That sounds like a choice to me.

No, FFA is hardcore because it's harder to interact with other players rather than just get your loot and go about your business. Thus the "hard" in Hardcore.

Honestly, yeah. Default makes Hardcore seem kinda pointless. But that's a division in the game itself. A massive one, in fact. The only way I can interact with characters on Default is if I die and can never touch Hardcore with my character again.

Default is a different economy, player base, and play style, so I would venture far enough to say it is an entirely different game with the same face, but different mechanics.

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TremorAcePV wrote:

But then that doesn't guarantee I have a group. That only gives me the choice to make a group I'm not certain will come.

In this case, making the entire game FFA loot would only serve to further your sense of entitlement, because you would be the only person in the entire world that wants to play with FFA loot.