Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Everyone on both sides is getting a little nasty claiming the other side has no logic.

I can understand why people don't like the idea of instanced loot; I don't either. It feels fake and like an overally 'videogamey' solution. A lot of times in these games just giving players exactly what they want actually makes the game more soulless and less interesting in the long run; I believe the devs understand that.

The current system though isn't very interesting. In my opinion they have the code for the timers so they should make use of them, and I expect they will come up with something cool.

Increasing the timers would be one solution, but I think it would be great if instead they allowed players to loot *through* the timers, but with some sort of consequence, like PvP flagging in some way or something similar.



As an aside.. the ideal situation IMHO would be one where the timers were long (5+ seconds) but anyone could loot any item regardless. Looting someone else's item pops a box saying "are you sure" so you cannot accidently flag yourself, but it's easy to skip through it with a button if you are really quickly trying to loot something good (the option would also be available to turn off this warning check entirely for real ninja bastards).

Looting someone else's assigned item would make it so that you flagged PvP to that person, who could then kill you if they so choosed (though of course, them attacking the ninja would allow the ninja to attack back!)

Whoever loses forfeits all the inventory they've picked up in that particular area (AKA the item in question, as well as whatever other loot the person had snagged).

This could be difficult to implement and I'm sure it would have its own list of issues... but it would be fun. "Steve is ninjaing everything, kick him" "Why don't you attack him?" "He is stronger than me, can we just kick him?" "Sorry not getting involved" :D

After thinking about this for a while, I say give them instanced loot in default. But keep the FFA in hardcore. Anyways, its only baddies that can't move fast enough to click their loot and cry much in forums.

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XCodes wrote:

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Dishonor wrote:

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XCodes wrote:

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the fact that each party member only adds +50% loot to the drops.

Therefore, playing in groups generally means less loot for each individual person.

That is not true. Consider other facts too. Monsters have only 50% more HP per additional player. -> same loot

Also you can share auras, charges, and defense(more targets to absorb dmg). -> more loot for party

EDIT: To be fair. There is some time lost in party managing.

You also make more targets for AoE attacks like suicide minions, multiple projectiles enemies, curses, and basically anything that casts spells like spark, ice spear, cold snap...

You are right. Having more player doesn't add defense to AoE. Well they can split, but that is not a point (and can be bad idea). On spells I mostly agree too, except Spark. If spark hits players, it is gone and stop wandering through map. It can't hit everyone. Spark can hit you with all three projectiles in single, but it is highly unlikely in 6 man group.

Due to Charan pointing out that the loot system is the most complained about feature, I figured it was time to hunt up this thread and give some more feedback.

FFA looting does not increase difficulty. Players who want instanced loot are not strictly worse at clicking pictures on the screen.

FFA looting rewards greedy players and punishes polite players. All aspects of society should try to encourage polite behavior. Even if exile land is a cut throat place, people are playing PoE on computers, possibly sitting at home in a comfy chair. Comfy chairs are not places of "have to be an ass to survive."

Here is a suggestion for you: After the 50 milisecond timer runs out on an item, leave the player'a name under the item, but let anyone pick it up. When playing with friends (because grouping with randoms is so atrocious) we always let whoever's name was on the item pick it up, but sometimes there'll be so many items we can't tell which item was meant for which player.

This suggestion only helps both sides. Polite players no longer have to worry about deciding who's turn it is, and assholes will get an even bigger rush by picking up an item with someone else's name on it.

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Worldbreaker wrote:

To the post above, yes you give the option, but there is no option. If instanced were implemented a majority of players that have no problem with FFA would play it. It is easier, there is no tension, just you killing monsters and casually grabbing your stuff as you go. Even if instanced was penalized, for the people that want it, they would still play it, people that have no issue with FFA would be rewarded for fighting over drops.

A hard coded fully instanced loot implementation is not going to happen. There wont be a checkbox to click and then you get all your loot miraculously.

An assistance for setting party rules (permanent names on items), to make a loot per name parties work, i very much hope so.
The option to choose which style they want to play, lies in the hand of the partyleader.

There is no reason for anyone to decide or to punish the way a group of ppl likes to play.
There is also no reason to enforce something, which annoys players. Especially if you would like them to stay and support via microtransactions.

That party gameplay seems to easy, is subject to balancing and has nothing to do with loot.

How to distribute loot is after all, a social thing, as the posts above mentioned.
Only the way how loot is dropped is part of game mechanics. If you camp a timed item or leave it be...is for you to decide.

Its also very much for you to decide with which ppl you want to play with.
If you are in for the competition, fine play in a dedicated FFA party. have fun.
If you are new to the genre, dont wont to rush for loot and focus solely on fighting, and perhaps more loot, fine...play in a loot per name party. noone can or should hinder you.

As the decision wont be made by hardcoding anything, there is nothing to oppose, nothing to fear and whine about loosing FFA.

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Vitacia wrote:

Designed for single player? A F2P, always online multiplayer game? If you want a singleplayer experience, then play alone, nobody is stopping you.
And I can't have it both ways? Currently, I have it both ways.

Whenever it fits you, you bring the devs in. Whenever it doesnt, you dont.

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Vitacia wrote:

To quote the very first post of this thread: "It's important to us that Path of Exile has a cut-throat feel where players are not only competing against monsters, but also their fellow players. We do not feel it is an option to arbitrarily hide items from players who have not been allocated them."

There you are,told ya

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Vitacia wrote:

There are more drops in groups. The Risk is that everyone can take it. So if you are a lazy, slow player, you either endure that risk and be happy about the extra XP, or you use your social skills and play with friends.
If you want the easy way, you can do the following:
- Use your social skills to mobilize friends or find people that you can trust
- 6boxing by yourself, but having way harder enemies and way less killing speed than a group

There aren't more drops in groups. Not even close. When there are 12 slices of pizza for 1 person, 15 slices of pizza for 6 isn't what you call more pizza. It's a fact, you are always gonna pick more loot in solo then in multiplayer. You can't really dispute them

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Vitacia wrote:

It's more like being forced to play with both eyes open if you want loot in a full party of random people.
It isn't frustrating to me at all. I like it when a game forces me to pay attention.

That's the problem. The fact that you are a bad player and you have to keep both eyes open and pay attention to make a single click in 8 seconds is what it's all about. I don't. I was playing games that required 150+apm, that's why I don't need to actually pay attention to pick up things. So the only thing that's left is frustation and boredom. Woobidoo, lets go party and see who clicks the ground faster. They could actually make it a mini game in a different league. A league where you have no character and no mobs, with just loot dropping on the ground and whoever clicks more loot in a minute is a winner. What a great game that would be

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Vitacia wrote:

There are two opposite forces. You have people who want to change the loot system, but at the same time, people who defend it.

No, you have people that want to have the option to play differently and people who don't want other people to have fun :)

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Vitacia wrote:

This actually shows that the people who complain about it aren't the only ones to consider in this discussion. There are many people like me who actually like the current state of the loot system, but get called "self serving anti social geek nobody"[sic!] or "extremely blind, stubborn and close minded"[sic!] because of it. Just for enjoying a game mechanic.

No, you are extremely blind, stubborn and close minded because
1)You have no argument on why FFA is better than anything else
2)No one forces you to stop playing FFA, since it will be optional, but you still don't want it to be added :)

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Vitacia wrote:

I believe that the problem doesn't lies within the game mechanic, but within the people who complain about it. I believe having the option to fight over loot is a good thing, because it encourages more than just farming in groups all day. It encourages players to try to play solo so they can keep all the loot for themselves, or play with friends so everyone shares. Take that away, and you will destroy solo play and make playing with friends purely optional.

It's NOT an option. You either have to stop killing mobs to pick up loot or be a poor guy. It doesn't encourage people playing with friends, it encourages people to multibox

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Vitacia wrote:

No.
Play solo -> no fight over loot
Play with friends -> no fight over loot
Play with random players -> fight over loot


There are two viable ways of not having to fight over loot. Try them and see for yourself.

But, but , but, since as YOU brought up the argument, devs want to have loot tension, should we forbid solo play and playing with friends???

The pro-RED argument that the game is easier in multi-player is simply marvelous.

Let's even assume it's true, just for laughs. The game is easier, we'll say. The players combine their powers, Captain Planet style. Fine. The players kill faster, gain exp faster, and therefore, as a result of this accelerated play speed, earn loot faster, irrespective of -- or perhaps in combination with -- the +50%-per-player drop rate modifier. Sure. Why not.

Doesn't this all simply speak toward party balance? That the group, as a whole, is gaining a bonus? If so, then how does TORTURING INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS by forcing them to run in circles trying desperately to pick up their loot before someone steals it somehow magically provide some sort of meaningful, useful counter-balance to this game balance issue?

Or, from another approach: let's assume six GREENs get together for kicks and form a six-player game. Being GREENs, rather than experiencing the stupendous, naughty-region-tingling joy of stealing each others' loot, they simply allow each other to pick up the loot that's been allocated to each of them, as it drops. As a result, not only is the whole "ZOMG FFA cut-throat awesomesauce" system neutered, but these six players are also gaining the aforementioned, so-called benefits of group play. Thus, it is possible, right now, to play multi-player, and gain all of its supposed game play advantages, but purposefully avoid any of the disadvantages that REDs claim are designed to counter them.

Seems like a pretty crappy balancing mechanism to me, if it's so readily circumvented. And in turn, this again begs the question: since players can do that anyway, WHY SHOULD REDS CARE if we can simply set up a game to provide this mechanic automatically?

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Xaxyx wrote:

Seems like a pretty crappy balancing mechanism to me, if it's so readily circumvented. And in turn, this again begs the question: since players can do that anyway, WHY SHOULD REDS CARE if we can simply set up a game to provide this mechanic automatically?

Why should te dev-team change loot then, afterall you guys can already play without FFA. I rather see the dev-team work on more important issue's.

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skarrmania wrote:

After thinking about this for a while, I say give them instanced loot in default. But keep the FFA in hardcore. Anyways, its only baddies that can't move fast enough to click their loot and cry much in forums.

As long instanced loot is of an inferior quality than FFA-loot runs sure. Instant gratification kids these days, always want their loot the easy way.