Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Vooodu wrote:

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Cuddlekat wrote:

Seems like, rather than actually wanting to discuss the issue with helpful ideas put forward, it is now just all about the bitching and having a go at the FFA die harders, and the anti ninja looters.
Ive offered my suggestion and i give up if everyone JUST wants to have this thread as bitch match.
GREAT GAME I LOVE IT!!! THANK YOU!

lol... I couldn't have said it better myself.

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grasmann wrote:

lol ... not a single comment on my suggestion. Just bitchin' about if the loot should be instanced or not XD. You guys just love to argue don't you?
Well, then: I hope instanced loot won't be implemented because it's shit :D.

Hmm, interesting, i might be wrong but i really have a feeling that Vooodu and Cuddlekat are the same persons/ideas.
I might be wrong thou.
Anyway
Edited: and grasmann too

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Omnivore61 wrote:

Seriously it answers the issues you are raising.

Those issues are in fact non-issues, I demolished them some posts ago.
Basically no solo-player will complain regarding the drop rate in instanced-loot-party because they are already familiar with the solo(instanced) drop rates.
If ffaers complain they have the solution in hand: go play ffa, will still be available in the game. But because they are so selfentitled-hardcorers (at clicking lol) they wont even try the new instanced-loot-system-option.
New players coming to this game will start solo, so they also will be familiar with that drop rates. If they try ffa and like it then they are free to ffa as long as like.
Easy peasy.
So there are no issues of that kind.

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Niburu wrote:

i get it you dont know what a CCU is...

Obviously it is the Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose International Airport (Kolkata Airport, IATA code CCU), located in Dum Dum, India.

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

Just putting this here. The quote is from a dev, Brian.

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We've tinkered around with a lot of different loot timers, and we've found that when we extend them, even by a little bit, the pace of the game drags considerably. You want to just be moving along all the time, going from pack to pack, blowing stuff up. The last thing you want to be doing is standing around every time some stuff dies, waiting for all your little bars to decay.

That's because people are waiting to snag someone else's stuff.

Otherwise they'd be out there killing monsters.

So pure FFA is too unfair. Timed FFA, no matter the assigned time, drags the game because everyone's waiting for the bars to go away to ninja stuff.

I believe the best thing is to mark people who take items that have been assigned to someone else. Like a red X in the portrait or something like that. Have it last a week. Let the communnity decide.

EVE online has something similar in regards to player killing. There's a Security Status. It goes from 10 to 0. As you commit heinous acts, it starts going down. It's been while since I last played EVE, but if I recall it has two effects: as far as game mechanics, if I recall, concord no longer protects you in high sec areas or something like that. It also brands you for the rest of the playerbase. Carebears mistrust a pure 0 pilot, reds wear pure 0 as a medal.

No, that would be horrible. Since the game is designed so other peoples CAN ninja your loot its not considered a "bad" thing so what you are suggesting is totally out of the water.

My problem is, as I mentioned again and again, FFA has no place in a PVE game. Considering the fact that someone is gonna play ONLY with friends or solo, he totally goes around and spits into FFA's face. Which some might say "well, there is your solution" but that's fucking horrible. FFA wasn't put into the game so actually players can work around it (by blacklisting / going solo or whatever) but because it was supposed to be funnier. Well, it's not. Even in party with friends its a fucking boredom

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

Oh and for the record I agree that instanced will balloon the economy with items.

Sorry, that statement of yours is plain wrong.
Very easy demonstration:
-in a party of 6, ffa-loot, a total of 100 items drop from the total numbers of monsters from that instance;
-in a party of 6, instanced-loot, a total of 100 items drop from the total numbers of monsters from that instance.
So there is absolutely not balloning/inflating/changing the economy. It will be the same as it is now.

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Omnivore61 wrote:

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

See, because orbs are consumed to make items, rare inflation also inflates orbs. Orbs will also drop more because instanced loot and due to the link between items and orbs the will get even more inflated.

The only way that an instance loot option would result in more drops is if public groups become more common than they are now with FFA. Otherwise the same exact amount of loot drops in both instanced and FFA - unless of course whoever implements the instanced option is a complete idiot. The only thing that changes is the way looting rights are handled. If anything that might possibly result in *less* loot being collected under an instanced system if some of the pro-FFA crowd is correct and it actually slows down looting in practice.

It is like you are saying "No no, we can't have instanced loot because more people will actually join public parties resulting in more loot collected per player which will cause inflation. We must keep FFA so that more people stay solo so we can avoid inflation!" All the while, the economy of the game lacks proper sinks. ./me face desk.

Hm if i have a group of 4 people with ffa lets say 100 items drop.

How many items would drop in instanced? 25 for everyone or 100 for everyone?

If 100 items drops then for everyone but the group count is the same "before" ffa. Then the amount of items is raised by 400%.

If you have only 25 drops the chance of getting "good" drops is lowered.

Am i correct with this?

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Actually, it fits in rather well.

What doesn't fit in, is playing in some game where a monster dies, and different people see different things.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough. I honestly see the following occurring should instanced loot ever make it in this game:

Thread-> DROPS RATES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!!!!

I kill a fucking rare mob, and all I get is 2 items!!! Or, when I kill several blues and get NOTHING!!!! FUCKING IDIOTIC!!! Drop rates need to be buffed NOW!!

What's even worse, I kill a unique mob, and get 2 or 3 items. How the hell am I supposed to progress with these fucking drop rates!!!

Increase drop rates NOW, or I'm LEAVING this POS game.



Just calling it. Because this is exactly what happens in every other game with instanced loot.

That's a totally different thing. "low drop rates" thread are already spawning around. Just search the forum , it's full of them. My opinion on the matter is, drop rates are actually WAY higher than they should be in a "hardcore" game.

The thing is fucking simple. When people are actually using OUT OF THE GAME THINGS to circumvent some of the game's mechanisms then it's pretty obvious that some things are broken. Calling no AH hardcore when there is an AH in the game's forum is fucking insane!!! Calling FFA hardcore when everyone find's ways to work around it is again BAD DESIGN.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

Maybe I enjoy FFA loot? Maybe I can have my own opinions? Maybe there are no "facts" that FFA loot is terrible. To me there is fun, there is skill and instanced loot doesn't let people see the stuff I got. You sure talk about a lot of "facts" for the fact there are no "facts" about someones opinion on a game mechanic. By the way, Chuck probably does like FFA loot. Just saying.

You enjoy FFA loot, you can join the "FFA enabled" parties. There you go. As for it demanding skill, YEAH RIGHT. If you really think that picking your loot is a skill based mechanic then sir, you are a major noob.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

One more thing, I keep noticing people arguing that "the players who want FFA loot are a minority" when really, I think that since we're not the ones bitching about FFA loot, that there are more people who don't care/mind rather than the amount of people who want instanced loot.

Yes, they are a minority. I'm not talking about the forums. Look at the party creation tab. It's full of "no ninjas"

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Spysong192 wrote:

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Omnivore61 wrote:

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

See, because orbs are consumed to make items, rare inflation also inflates orbs. Orbs will also drop more because instanced loot and due to the link between items and orbs the will get even more inflated.

The only way that an instance loot option would result in more drops is if public groups become more common than they are now with FFA. Otherwise the same exact amount of loot drops in both instanced and FFA - unless of course whoever implements the instanced option is a complete idiot. The only thing that changes is the way looting rights are handled. If anything that might possibly result in *less* loot being collected under an instanced system if some of the pro-FFA crowd is correct and it actually slows down looting in practice.

It is like you are saying "No no, we can't have instanced loot because more people will actually join public parties resulting in more loot collected per player which will cause inflation. We must keep FFA so that more people stay solo so we can avoid inflation!" All the while, the economy of the game lacks proper sinks. ./me face desk.

Hm if i have a group of 4 people with ffa lets say 100 items drop.

How many items would drop in instanced? 25 for everyone or 100 for everyone?

If 100 items drops then for everyone but the group count is the same "before" ffa. Then the amount of items is raised by 400%.

If you have only 25 drops the chance of getting "good" drops is lowered.

Am i correct with this?

The way I would implement it: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/95930#p1013235 a total of 100 items would drop. Of those, lets say 80 were 'trash' drops - those would be free to pick up by anyone; of the remaining 20 items, they would have loot rights split up amongst the 4 players, each having sole loot rights to 5 items. On screen it would look pretty much as it does now when items first drop, but before the timer expires.

The loot system is awesome as it adds competition and with it the excitement. I am ranged and I get all my loot, occasionaly I lose some loot but thats ok since it evens out as I take some loot that didnt have my tag on it. Oh and yes I dps non stop, that argument how ppl only fallow and take loot is retarded and un true. I've been in like 100 pugs and that happened maybe from 2 guys who I kicked instantly.

If you cant grab your loot with plenty of time you have you are just slow

Problem is when developers start catering to whining new-generation gamesrs that are used to have evrything served on their plate game starts dieing.

First it is the loot, then the drop rates will be "TOO LOW", then they will cry for full respec, then some sort of automated trade where you can list items etc etc. And before you know it game becomes dumbed down and automated and crowd that would actully stick with the game for years and years gets fed up and leave. Seen this happen so many times

Whining ppl will quit sooner or later regardless of what you give them. Developers have to stick with their own vision