Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

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Omnivore61 wrote:

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

Maybe I enjoy FFA loot? Maybe I can have my own opinions? Maybe there are no "facts" that FFA loot is terrible. To me there is fun, there is skill and instanced loot doesn't let people see the stuff I got. You sure talk about a lot of "facts" for the fact there are no "facts" about someones opinion on a game mechanic. By the way, Chuck probably does like FFA loot. Just saying.

Instanced loot doesn't have to stop people from seeing what you will get. A good user interface for instanced loot would show you pretty much exactly what you see now. Just some of the items would have a green border (you own loot rights), some a red border (someone else owns loot rights), and some no border (FFA loot rights). Only uniques, rares, currency, maps, and perhaps 5/6S items would have loot right attachments. Anyone could release their own loot rights to an item by a simple alt+click making it easy to let someone who can use an item better pick it up without the hassle of trading. Finally it would be an option chosen at party creation time.

But bleh, most people don't seem to want to hear solutions.

I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.

Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.

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killbilly wrote:

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Actually, it fits in rather well.

What doesn't fit in, is playing in some game where a monster dies, and different people see different things.

Also, and I cannot stress this enough. I honestly see the following occurring should instanced loot ever make it in this game:

Thread-> DROPS RATES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!!!!

I kill a fucking rare mob, and all I get is 2 items!!! Or, when I kill several blues and get NOTHING!!!! FUCKING IDIOTIC!!! Drop rates need to be buffed NOW!!

What's even worse, I kill a unique mob, and get 2 or 3 items. How the hell am I supposed to progress with these fucking drop rates!!!

Increase drop rates NOW, or I'm LEAVING this POS game.



Just calling it. Because this is exactly what happens in every other game with instanced loot.

But you do not want accountability. No PK (true cutthroat), no branding. You want to keep taking a bigger share of the pie without any balancing measures.

It fits the lore rather well than in an inhospitable environment some people will go towards building a communnity and using collaborative effort while others will go all out to use strength and power as an advantadge. Heck it goes so well for situations where normal conventions and the rule of law disappears that it has become a cinematic cliché as well! Ye olde conflict between order and chaos. Law and anarchy.

Players already do this, just see the public party names... no ninja, no lootwhoring, no qq, FFA, ninjas welcome... it is already happening slayer. Just put a framework on this and boom, emergent gameplay. EVE has become a continuous success over a decade (something only WoW has done) just on the strength of its emergent gameplay. While WoW rules the theme park roost, EVE owns the sand from which sandboxes are made.

In EVE (a game FFA proponents use a lot as an example of a true cutthroat game, and by the gods it is!) there's a mechanism to grind sec status up - reds use it all the time to appear respectable and surprise the bears. It takes some effort tho.

I know right now you guys have it very good. With no accountability and no PK, taking a larger share of the pie is easy. Obviouly any change at all would be in your detriment. You do realize of this, that's why you laugh or troll any measure that would change the status quo. But is the game for the better or for the worse? The devs are already aware the current implementation is extremely unfair towards people with high ping or lower specced computers. No more laughing it out with handwaving comments such as "buy a better computer!" "get a better connection" it is already in the dev discourse.

Oh and for the record I agree that instanced will balloon the economy with items. That's why I am against such a solution. Item scarcity is good for the long term well being of the game and makes self sufficiency harsh pushing players into the bartering economy. Wich mean stablishing links with the communnity which means people become attached with the game. It's the virtuous circle of online gaming. This is something EVE does very, very well. The pilot sec status and the PVP events around it even provides a split communnity with a narrative since it is universal, ie not optional, even players who would feel neutral towards it take a stance. It is fantastic indeed.

After the failure of the WoW style MMO - nowadays a theme park MMO with a subscription is not viable - companies are looking at EVE as an inspiration because it is one of the few MMOs where every player pays monthly.

a ballooned economy from IL is the devs problem not the system's iteself...IL is heave on dev side while FFA is an easy system that demands players to sort things out

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killbilly wrote:

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.

Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.

you sir are the pinnacle of why ffa is bad.....finding fun in griefing than the game..
and serously in ffa you will see more useless players stopping dps to grab the regal while in il i can dps and loot after...

blatant and empty claims

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

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killbilly wrote:

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.

Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.

you sir are the pinnacle of why ffa is bad.....finding fun in griefing than the game..
and serously in ffa you will see more useless players stopping dps to grab the regal while in il i can dps and loot after...

blatant and empty claims

Have you not read anything the developers have said? They want it to be competitive, including the search for gear. PoE dumps you in a god forsaken land and you, the hero need to salvage what you can and compete to survive. I love that idea and the FFA loot system supports the lore better than IL would. Grabbing loot that drops isn't griefing. As I've read hundreds of times before, just because it had your name on it, doesn't mean it was yours. People need to grasp this idea.

Your Regal Orb hypothetical situation goes both ways. Person went to grab it, got mowed down due to greed, if they were playing HC mode, they'd be feeling pretty stupid right about then. As I said before, you might be the only one doing anything in an instanced loot pub game since everyone else is hanging back picking up their loot or game sitting. These arguments go both ways.

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ManiaCCC wrote:

I see what you want to say.. but PoE is first and foremost game.. GGG is first and foremost private company..which can goes to bankruptcy..and no GGG = no PoE

I know..FFA is theme in PoE.. I got it.. maybe even GGG wanted it this way. Sure..nice idea and everything.. but keeping PoE afloat, they need people..they need a lot of people if they don't want put PoE in maintenance mode. You can think about IL anything you want.. as I can think about FFA anything I want.. but arguing which playstyle is better has no meanings...it doesn't matter.. Everyone can see..by reactions in game, reactions on forum and by statistic..that playerbase is just divided.. Looting is a big deal in loot hunting game..so it's really issue and important one.. Compromises wont make anyone happy.. So I believe it would be good for everyone if everyone would be supporting looting options..i can't think about better solution no matter how much I try..

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BitmapFrogs wrote:

A ballooned economy inflates the cost of items. What now costs one exalted, it might end up costing over 100 exalted. The more inflated an economy is, the wider the gap between the have and have nots. Just look at D3. Before the unique drop boost, top stuff went for 200-400M outside a few very,very, extremely lucky drops. Nowadays top stuff goes for over a billion! Meanwhile the value of common drops plummet. I've played many inflationary games. At the beginning it is awesome because you get all that loot! But overtime the spending power divide becomes not a gulf but a friggin ocean.

Even D2 slowly crept up there, something that's going to be difficult to happen in PoE because many orbs get destroyed everyday. Unless there's an extreme luck involved, creating a single AWESOME rare (tipically something you do towards the end game) involves starting with a good base item, the getting good sockets on it (this can be skipped if it is found or bought with good sockets), then making it blue, then adding the second affix (sometimes you only get one affix). If it does not have the two things you really want, you have to scour or reroll it. Just for this stage, stacks upon stacks of orbs get consumed. Then you have exalt it to rare. If the new properties are not good mods, scour and restart (rerolling the mods might lose you the good blue mods you carried from the blue item). After this, the mods might be good but the rolls might not! More orbs. Then ya need a good intrinsic mod value. More orbs. If this does not work, then it's the alchemy lottery. Upgrading from white and scouring. If that does not work, well... By this time, your orb stash tab looks like a disaster zone: it's in shambles. Sucumbing to desesperation, it is time for the Orb of Chance to shine. And the whole process is powered by orbs of scouring. Right now they are not that valuable, but once high level players start burning their stashes away the orb of scouring will skyrocket. I have already seen here and there people in the trade channel buying scours.

Obviously good items, GREAT items are found, but by design they are very, very rare. Lots of luck to score one of those, its the kind of shit that gets into global chat and everyone is ooohhhh aaaaaahhhh. These items have inmense value. So big, its not worth trading them for anything else but another such item that fits your current build. Or kept for an alt. Offers for this stuff are measured in mirrors, not exalteds.

If loot drops are increased in a way that enough that such awesome items start to become something more than rarities, well then... the game gets fucked.

Inflation is not only a developer problem, its your problem as well.


EDIT: to say I havent done high level crafting since I quit the beta quite a few months ago. For better information, check out Invalesco's trading tips.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

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ManiaCCC wrote:

I see what you want to say.. but PoE is first and foremost game.. GGG is first and foremost private company..which can goes to bankruptcy..and no GGG = no PoE

I know..FFA is theme in PoE.. I got it.. maybe even GGG wanted it this way. Sure..nice idea and everything.. but keeping PoE afloat, they need people..they need a lot of people if they don't want put PoE in maintenance mode. You can think about IL anything you want.. as I can think about FFA anything I want.. but arguing which playstyle is better has no meanings...it doesn't matter.. Everyone can see..by reactions in game, reactions on forum and by statistic..that playerbase is just divided.. Looting is a big deal in loot hunting game..so it's really issue and important one.. Compromises wont make anyone happy.. So I believe it would be good for everyone if everyone would be supporting looting options..i can't think about better solution no matter how much I try..

PoE is doing fine from what I see. GGG having issues keeping up with server capacity? Over 60,000 people from across the world playing daily? Personally if they want to keep the game going, they're looting at getting more server space and fixing things that are important rather than trying to please everyone with whatever loot system they want. If I were developing the game, that would definitely be much much lower on the list. Monster De-sync and fixing connection errors, drops and server crashes are much, much higher.

Just because people want this and that doesn't mean other won't support the game. I'm sure GGG knows how to run their company better than anyone posting on their forums.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

PoE is doing fine from what I see. GGG having issues keeping up with server capacity? Over 60,000 people from across the world playing daily? Personally if they want to keep the game going, they're looking at getting more server space and fixing things that are important rather than trying to please everyone with whatever loot system they want. If I were developing the game, that would definitely be much much lower on the list. Monster De-sync and fixing connection errors, drops and server crashes are much, much higher.

Just because people want this and that doesn't mean other won't support the game. I'm sure GGG knows how to run their company better than anyone posting on their forums.

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

Have you not read anything the developers have said? They want it to be competitive, including the search for gear. PoE dumps you in a god forsaken land and you, the hero need to salvage what you can and compete to survive. I love that idea and the FFA loot system supports the lore better than IL would. Grabbing loot that drops isn't griefing. As I've read hundreds of times before, just because it had your name on it, doesn't mean it was yours. People need to grasp this idea.

Your Regal Orb hypothetical situation goes both ways. Person went to grab it, got mowed down due to greed, if they were playing HC mode, they'd be feeling pretty stupid right about then. As I said before, you might be the only one doing anything in an instanced loot pub game since everyone else is hanging back picking up their loot or game sitting. These arguments go both ways

Also, these claims are not empty. I've seen many times in many games like this where people just game sat for loot (Torchlight 2, Diablo 3, WoW, etc.)

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Juggernaut448 wrote:

Problem with instanced loot:
This game is boring, all I'm doing is farming mobs.