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ManiaCCC wrote:
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killbilly wrote:
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Actually, it fits in rather well.
What doesn't fit in, is playing in some game where a monster dies, and different people see different things.
Also, and I cannot stress this enough. I honestly see the following occurring should instanced loot ever make it in this game:
Thread-> DROPS RATES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!!!!
I kill a fucking rare mob, and all I get is 2 items!!! Or, when I kill several blues and get NOTHING!!!! FUCKING IDIOTIC!!! Drop rates need to be buffed NOW!!
What's even worse, I kill a unique mob, and get 2 or 3 items. How the hell am I supposed to progress with these fucking drop rates!!!
Increase drop rates NOW, or I'm LEAVING this POS game.
Just calling it. Because this is exactly what happens in every other game with instanced loot.
you sir are total clueless or...total clueless
you see that's they problem because diablo3 has instanced loot you believe that the drop rates where low cause of IL...but infact they were low and total random cause of RMAH...get some facts straight sir...
this is the new line of defense for FFA? do not change it cause people will qq about drop rates?
com'on
Actually drop rates in PoE are also horrible..and there is no AH... :)..just saying.. I just don't believe that d3 drops were adjusted because of AH..if they were..why PoE has exactly same problem? :)
what problem ? lol? i have 5 stash tabs full of rares, people taking uniques that are useful in the normal a1...do we play the same game?
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself
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Posted bykillbilly#2346on Feb 3, 2013, 3:04:24 AM
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Actually, it fits in rather well.
What doesn't fit in, is playing in some game where a monster dies, and different people see different things.
Also, and I cannot stress this enough. I honestly see the following occurring should instanced loot ever make it in this game:
Thread-> DROPS RATES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!!!!
I kill a fucking rare mob, and all I get is 2 items!!! Or, when I kill several blues and get NOTHING!!!! FUCKING IDIOTIC!!! Drop rates need to be buffed NOW!!
What's even worse, I kill a unique mob, and get 2 or 3 items. How the hell am I supposed to progress with these fucking drop rates!!!
Increase drop rates NOW, or I'm LEAVING this POS game.
Just calling it. Because this is exactly what happens in every other game with instanced loot.
But you do not want accountability. No PK (true cutthroat), no branding. You want to keep taking a bigger share of the pie without any balancing measures.
It fits the lore rather well than in an inhospitable environment some people will go towards building a communnity and using collaborative effort while others will go all out to use strength and power as an advantadge. Heck it goes so well for situations where normal conventions and the rule of law disappears that it has become a cinematic cliché as well! Ye olde conflict between order and chaos. Law and anarchy.
Players already do this, just see the public party names... no ninja, no lootwhoring, no qq, FFA, ninjas welcome... it is already happening slayer. Just put a framework on this and boom, emergent gameplay. EVE has become a continuous success over a decade (something only WoW has done) just on the strength of its emergent gameplay. While WoW rules the theme park roost, EVE owns the sand from which sandboxes are made.
In EVE (a game FFA proponents use a lot as an example of a true cutthroat game, and by the gods it is!) there's a mechanism to grind sec status up - reds use it all the time to appear respectable and surprise the bears. It takes some effort tho.
I know right now you guys have it very good. With no accountability and no PK, taking a larger share of the pie is easy. Obviouly any change at all would be in your detriment. You do realize of this, that's why you laugh or troll any measure that would change the status quo. But is the game for the better or for the worse? The devs are already aware the current implementation is extremely unfair towards people with high ping or lower specced computers. No more laughing it out with handwaving comments such as "buy a better computer!" "get a better connection" it is already in the dev discourse.
Oh and for the record I agree that instanced will balloon the economy with items. That's why I am against such a solution. Item scarcity is good for the long term well being of the game and makes self sufficiency harsh pushing players into the bartering economy. Wich mean stablishing links with the communnity which means people become attached with the game. It's the virtuous circle of online gaming. This is something EVE does very, very well. The pilot sec status and the PVP events around it even provides a split communnity with a narrative since it is universal, ie not optional, even players who would feel neutral towards it take a stance. It is fantastic indeed.
After the failure of the WoW style MMO - nowadays a theme park MMO with a subscription is not viable - companies are looking at EVE as an inspiration because it is one of the few MMOs where every player pays monthly.
Closed beta player, August 2011 Last edited by BitmapFrogs#6778 on Feb 3, 2013, 3:10:54 AM
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Posted byBitmapFrogs#6778on Feb 3, 2013, 3:08:59 AM
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killbilly wrote:
what problem ? lol? i have 5 stash tabs full of rares, people taking uniques that are useful in the normal a1...do we play the same game?
maybe..i don't know.. I found just few useful rares during the playthrough.. Played in Cruel..and everything was garbage.. I spent many many orbs to craft something useful. but that's about it..
but I unique I have is pretty nice.. that's true :P
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Posted byManiaCCC#5219on Feb 3, 2013, 3:15:09 AM
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killbilly wrote:
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Juggernaut448 wrote:
Benefits of FFA loot:
Holy crap, a unique just dropped in the middle of those mobs and it's reserved for me. Holy crap I just got it and lived, what a rush!
Problem with instanced loot:
This game is boring, all I'm doing is farming mobs. Minus well go play WoW instead.
Anyway, as I've said many times, if people are really whining about the loot drops being FFA, make it so the timer is for when it becomes visible to the other players. That way no one will stop killing and you have time to reposition, grab it and continue killing the mobs.
Personally I'm fine with loot the way it is now, with or without timers.
people saying that FFA is fun are totally out of facts or they absolutely lieing....
what else? ad with the motto " Chuck norris loves FFA, why not you? "
seriously there is no fun,skill whatever in FFA and with IL there is no boredom...after all the loot comes AFTER the killing of the mobs .....seriously get some facts straight for one time
Maybe I enjoy FFA loot? Maybe I can have my own opinions? Maybe there are no "facts" that FFA loot is terrible. To me there is fun, there is skill and instanced loot doesn't let people see the stuff I got. You sure talk about a lot of "facts" for the fact there are no "facts" about someones opinion on a game mechanic. By the way, Chuck probably does like FFA loot. Just saying.
One more thing, I keep noticing people arguing that "the players who want FFA loot are a minority" when really, I think that since we're not the ones bitching about FFA loot, that there are more people who don't care/mind rather than the amount of people who want instanced loot.
Last edited by Juggernaut448#1888 on Feb 3, 2013, 3:23:03 AM
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Juggernaut448 wrote:
Maybe I enjoy FFA loot? Maybe I can have my own opinions? Maybe there are no "facts" that FFA loot is terrible. To me there is fun, there is skill and instanced loot doesn't let people see the stuff I got. You sure talk about a lot of "facts" for the fact there are no "facts" about someones opinion on a game mechanic. By the way, Chuck probably does like FFA loot. Just saying.
Instanced loot doesn't have to stop people from seeing what you will get. A good user interface for instanced loot would show you pretty much exactly what you see now. Just some of the items would have a green border (you own loot rights), some a red border (someone else owns loot rights), and some no border (FFA loot rights). Only uniques, rares, currency, maps, and perhaps 5/6S items would have loot right attachments. Anyone could release their own loot rights to an item by a simple alt+click making it easy to let someone who can use an item better pick it up without the hassle of trading. Finally it would be an option chosen at party creation time.
But bleh, most people don't seem to want to hear solutions.
Last edited by Omnivore61#1813 on Feb 3, 2013, 3:23:12 AM
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Posted byOmnivore61#1813on Feb 3, 2013, 3:22:23 AM
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BitmapFrogs wrote:
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Actually, it fits in rather well.
What doesn't fit in, is playing in some game where a monster dies, and different people see different things.
Also, and I cannot stress this enough. I honestly see the following occurring should instanced loot ever make it in this game:
Thread-> DROPS RATES ARE TOO LOW!!!!!!!!
I kill a fucking rare mob, and all I get is 2 items!!! Or, when I kill several blues and get NOTHING!!!! FUCKING IDIOTIC!!! Drop rates need to be buffed NOW!!
What's even worse, I kill a unique mob, and get 2 or 3 items. How the hell am I supposed to progress with these fucking drop rates!!!
Increase drop rates NOW, or I'm LEAVING this POS game.
Just calling it. Because this is exactly what happens in every other game with instanced loot.
But you do not want accountability. No PK (true cutthroat), no branding. You want to keep taking a bigger share of the pie without any balancing measures.
It fits the lore rather well than in an inhospitable environment some people will go towards building a communnity and using collaborative effort while others will go all out to use strength and power as an advantadge. Heck it goes so well for situations where normal conventions and the rule of law disappears that it has become a cinematic cliché as well! Ye olde conflict between order and chaos. Law and anarchy.
Players already do this, just see the public party names... no ninja, no lootwhoring, no qq, FFA, ninjas welcome... it is already happening slayer. Just put a framework on this and boom, emergent gameplay. EVE has become a continuous success over a decade (something only WoW has done) just on the strength of its emergent gameplay. While WoW rules the theme park roost, EVE owns the sand from which sandboxes are made.
In EVE (a game FFA proponents use a lot as an example of a true cutthroat game, and by the gods it is!) there's a mechanism to grind sec status up - reds use it all the time to appear respectable and surprise the bears. It takes some effort tho.
I know right now you guys have it very good. With no accountability and no PK, taking a larger share of the pie is easy. Obviouly any change at all would be in your detriment. You do realize of this, that's why you laugh or troll any measure that would change the status quo. But is the game for the better or for the worse? The devs are already aware the current implementation is extremely unfair towards people with high ping or lower specced computers. No more laughing it out with handwaving comments such as "buy a better computer!" "get a better connection" it is already in the dev discourse.
Oh and for the record I agree that instanced will balloon the economy with items. That's why I am against such a solution. Item scarcity is good for the long term well being of the game and makes self sufficiency harsh pushing players into the bartering economy. Wich mean stablishing links with the communnity which means people become attached with the game. It's the virtuous circle of online gaming. This is something EVE does very, very well. The pilot sec status and the PVP events around it even provides a split communnity with a narrative since it is universal, ie not optional, even players who would feel neutral towards it take a stance. It is fantastic indeed.
After the failure of the WoW style MMO - nowadays a theme park MMO with a subscription is not viable - companies are looking at EVE as an inspiration because it is one of the few MMOs where every player pays monthly.
a ballooned economy from IL is the devs problem not the system's iteself...IL is heave on dev side while FFA is an easy system that demands players to sort things out
When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself
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Posted bykillbilly#2346on Feb 3, 2013, 3:23:39 AM
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Omnivore61 wrote:
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Juggernaut448 wrote:
Maybe I enjoy FFA loot? Maybe I can have my own opinions? Maybe there are no "facts" that FFA loot is terrible. To me there is fun, there is skill and instanced loot doesn't let people see the stuff I got. You sure talk about a lot of "facts" for the fact there are no "facts" about someones opinion on a game mechanic. By the way, Chuck probably does like FFA loot. Just saying.
Instanced loot doesn't have to stop people from seeing what you will get. A good user interface for instanced loot would show you pretty much exactly what you see now. Just some of the items would have a green border (you own loot rights), some a red border (someone else owns loot rights), and some no border (FFA loot rights). Only uniques, rares, currency, maps, and perhaps 5/6S items would have loot right attachments. Anyone could release their own loot rights to an item by a simple alt+click making it easy to let someone who can use an item better pick it up without the hassle of trading. Finally it would be an option chosen at party creation time.
But bleh, most people don't seem to want to hear solutions.
I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.
Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.
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Juggernaut448 wrote:
I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.
Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.
OMFG you're actually serious.
Mind blown.
On this issue you and I will never be able to even understand where the other is coming from, and that's about the only thing that I can conclude from what you have said.
Worse, while I would be quite happy with an option, I'm pretty sure you want your way or the highway.
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Posted byOmnivore61#1813on Feb 3, 2013, 3:36:09 AM
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A ballooned economy? From instanced loot? WTF are you guys smoking?
The economy is entirely another issue. It's going to balloon no matter what because in default there are no sinks. Hardcore might be a bit better since at least there we lose the best items when characters die.
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Posted byOmnivore61#1813on Feb 3, 2013, 3:39:31 AM
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Omnivore61 wrote:
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Juggernaut448 wrote:
I understand the option of wanting it, but I don't want this game to be as boring as Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2. I played Diablo 2 during the dawn of it's opening. I loved fighting over loot, I honestly did. Beating out another player or a friend was satisfying. With instanced loot, well, I stopped playing pubs. All I would see are people gloating about what they got being too busy doing that to kill monsters. People were also just sitting on pubs waiting for others to kill to get loot later. People who were following the group but just sitting back doing jack shit. Those players will be everywhere and I consider them to be worse than "loot ninjas" because at least they will die trying to grab the loot.
Also, that Alt+click option would be horrid and would slow down the pace a lot. I also would imagine people saying stuff like "lolololol not for you!" in chat and whatnot. Always bound to happen.
OMFG you're actually serious.
Mind blown.
On this issue you and I will never be able to even understand where the other is coming from, and that's about the only thing that I can conclude from what you have said.
Worse, while I would be quite happy with an option, I'm pretty sure you want your way or the highway.
An option would be fine I suppose. Eventually though we'll get people complaining about game sitters, people who don't do anything, wanting a way to mute players, the "Alt+click" method being too slow, etc. It's an endless and vicious circle, take some time to really think about these things. Also, assuming things makes can make an ass out of yourself.
I'd like to say one more thing, what ever happened to etiquette and communication in games? If you're playing with people who horde loot and grab everything they can, why stay with them? If you join a pub and have a good experience, reach out and friend them, ask them if they would like to join a party. Makes friends with people you enjoyed playing with and ignore the rest. Seriously, games like this are meant to be played with friends rather than in public parties. Besides, every game has horrible people in the community, it's unavoidable.
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