SEASONAL content directly in STANDARD as well as in LEAGUE

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Dxt44#4050 wrote:

Absolutely not. What a utterly awful idea, I don't have words how bad that is.
We get some of that in 0.2.0, never again.

Never say never!!!

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IILU81II#8410 wrote:

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

You do realize that economy on Standard is broken for a very simple reason, right. It is stagnant and passive. Most people just sit on their items and almost nobody trades them, because all the real trading happens in league and Standard is basically where stuff gets dumped when league ends. That is why prices are so inflated there.

you answered yourself with these simple lines. leagues need to exist to refresh your standard stash?
WHO IS GOING TO PLAY LEAGUES IF I HAVE EVERYTHING ON STANDARD, LEAGUE'S CONTENT INCLUDED?

Another punishment to force you play League by violence.

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pzeiske#6656 wrote:

Who are these people you are talking about? "A lot of us" and "long-term Standard players". It reads to me as if you have exact numbers to back these claims but somehow I doubt it.

Yeah. OP's idea is all feels and no data. I doubt market research exists for any game, ever, that shows a winning strategy for, "Throw a bunch of undertested mechanics together, but make them easier, so there's no balance and less sense of accomplishment."

Please be so kind and actually re-read the thread.

I am not suggesting that Standard characters waltz into the current League fully geared and loaded with old-economy goodies. League would stay separate. Period.

The whole point is that for a lot of casual players, Standard is the only realistic place to play. They do not have the time or energy to start from scratch every 4 months. For them, the choice is often not "League vs Standard", it is "Standard vs closing the game and playing something that respects the fact they have a life."

What exactly are you afraid of here? That League will suddenly be empty? It won't. There will always be players who want the fresh start, the race, the ladder, the big e-pen moment. Streamers, racers, no-lifers, people who enjoy min-maxing the first week to death – they are not going anywhere. League caters to them perfectly.

Standard, on the other hand, could cater to people who log in a few hours a week, keep their progress, keep their gear, and still get access to new mechanics. You would still have your old economy (inflated or not, who cares, that is how Standard already is). You could still roll a fresh level 1 if you want the classic campaign loop. With dynamic level scaling, you could also jump in with an old high-level character when a friend starts, instead of telling them "see you in 200 hours when you catch up."

Once again, this is aimed at casual players who want to play long term without having their progress thrown in the bin every League cycle.

If you are genuinely convinced League would be empty if Standard also had timely seasonal content, then that just means most players actually prefer a persistent mode. In that case, maybe listen to what that says instead of pretending the problem is "too much choice."

IILU81II:
Saying "then don't play seasonal games" in a feedback forum is not exactly a galaxy-brain solution. There is a reason this subforum exists. People are literally asked to give feedback and suggest changes. "Leave if you don't like it" is not an argument, it is just shutting down discussion.

pzeiske:
Telling casual players to just wait months or years for new content in Standard is exactly what pushes them away. Why would I invest my limited free time into a game where one mode is always lagging behind and the only way to see new content on time is to reset my character again and again? Other long-running games (yes, MMOs) have shown that you can have ongoing content without forced wipes every few months, and their "Standard" players are still around years later.

My main point has not changed. Right now "seasonal game" is treated as "League or nothing." That makes PoE2 compete directly with PoE1 on the same axis: temporary leagues, fresh starts, race to the top. I think that is a mistake. PoE2 could differentiate itself by treating Standard as a legitimate long-term home that also gets seasonal content in a timely way, while League remains the fresh-economy challenge mode.

This game is not finished. It is early access. Systems can still change. Saying "this is how it has always been" is not a magic shield against criticism. Traditions change, games change, players get older and have less time, and design that worked for PoE1 in 2013 does not have to be blindly copied into PoE2 in 2025.

So yes, my recommendation stands. So far the only "arguments" against it boil down to personal attacks and "that is just how ARPGs are." I am arguing that maybe PoE2 should aim a bit higher than that and not be stuck competing with its own predecessor in exactly the same niche.


EDIT:

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pzeiske#6656 wrote:

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

dynamic level scaling

Isn't there and option for something like this for group play in PoE 2?

Ah, I see now, thanks for pointing this out. I genuinely could not find any info on it before, but yes, it is literally called "Default level downscaling" and it is even enabled by default. I have it enabled as well, but when I play with my friend I still erase bosses in a few seconds, so either the downscaling is not very aggressive or my build is just illegally strong.

Anyway, consider the dynamic level part of my post withdrawn, since that functionality is already in the game.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

design that worked for PoE1 in 2013 does not have to be blindly copied into PoE2 in 2025.

You say like it's some damage stat. It's principle, main pillar of their game, proved business strategy.

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

Standard, on the other hand, could cater to people who log in a few hours a week, keep their progress, keep their gear, and still get access to new mechanics.

Sometimes the new mechanics suck. Not every league goes core, nor should it.

A player who only logs in a few hours a week will be months behind new mechanics anyway.

But the most important thing is: no company will make a multimillion dollar change because you typed pages of philosophy in a forum thread. If you can get 10,000 currently-paying customers asking for this, like what happened with HC or SSF, GGG might do it. But you can't get even one person on this forum to agree with you.

If you want this, you're going to have to build support for it, like the Delirium Fog people are doing.

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pzeiske#6656 wrote:

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Jyrlep#4788 wrote:

dynamic level scaling

Isn't there and option for something like this for group play in PoE 2?

Yes.

Options > Game tab > Default dynamic scaling. Can be enabled/disabled.

.

Wait, what? Are you actually saying I would not have to wait for new seasonal content to hit Standard every single time in the future, but only "once" when the game leaves early access? Because everything I have seen and heard so far suggests the usual pattern: new mechanics go into League first, live there for a while, maybe get tuned, and only then (maybe) come to Standard. If that is the long-term plan forever, then my original concern stands exactly as written.

About private instances: yes, this has been done in MMOs for years. Guild Wars 2 is a very clear example. You have a shared world full of people, then story missions, dungeons, raids, guild hall, homestead and so on are all instanced per group. You can play them solo or with a small group, other players do not interfere with your run. That is literally what I mean when I talk about casual-friendly structure. It is not science fiction, it is shipping design.

And before someone goes "then go play GW2," I do. The reason I am here is build depth. PoE-style ARPGs have a ridiculous number of build ideas and weird interactions to test. That is what draws me to PoE2, not some deep love for resetting my progress on a timer.

Which is why the League vs Standard split matters so much to me. On paper, PoE2 was supposed to be its own thing next to PoE1. In practice, it feels more similar than different. Same league cycle concept, same fresh economy obsession, and in some ways even less flexibility than PoE1 (no linked sockets, less gem XP shenanigans). Yes, crafting is better. Yes, crossplay is great. Yes, the new marketplace in 0.3 is a massive quality-of-life win and I love that I can buy from level 1. But the core loop is still "new season, new economy, start over."

For my playstyle that makes League a hard no. I will never play a mode where I have to rebuild my entire economy from zero every few months. I already did the grind. I already have currency and gear on Standard. If I want to start a new character, I want to do it in the place where I can actually support that character from day one instead of spending my tiny amount of free time farming white maps hoping to afford level 30 boots.

My personal fun is making and testing new builds. To do that with my schedule, I need to be able to skip parts of the grind, especially the currency grind. I play a couple of hours a week at best. My first campaign run was something like 40 hours. Telling someone like me "just wait 4 months and then do it all again from zero" is not realistic, it is just a polite way of saying "this game is not really for you."

So yeah, the suggestion in this thread still stands. I am explaining how the game looks from the perspective of a time-poor Standard-only player who actually likes PoE2. If you think that perspective is worthless, feel free to keep piling on, but it does not magically make the concerns disappear.

You want to pay for items in mirrors instead of divs i see.
Are you rich and RMT all the time or what's going on in here?

Seasonal game model is about economy reset.
Without economy reset, new players cannot join, because they gonna have worse time than Millenials on Real Estate market.

If you streamline 2 servers - Seasonal and Standard to run in parallel, you would need to make League characters not join Standard league after the wipe. Otherwise it is a pointless activity, even harmful for the ecosystem.

Game does not require 5h playtime everyday. GGG prolonged the leagues to 4 months, it is more than enough for anyone to fill in the Atlass tree and goof around. (level 100 is not for everybody and should stay like that)