If fusings are twice as common, more players can spend over 1k fusings. Do I like that fusings are completely random and arbitrary and non-cummulative? Do I like that if you've spent 2k fusings and don't have a 6l that you're no closer than if you spent 0? No, of course not.
But that's not what was being discussed. What is being discussed is whether or not a higher orb drop rate would encourage people to spend orbs instead of simply hoarding them as currency. As an extreme example, ask yourself, if Exalteds were as common as Augmentations, would people be more or less willing to use them on their items to try to improve them? I think the answer is quite obvious. The solution isn't perfect, but it undoubtedly improves people's willingness to craft.
No, it wouldn't. Because if it takes a thousand exalts to buy the piece of gear they've been dying to get they won't want to waste exalts on their gear to get % light radius.
If you double the fusing rate people will go from having 10-20 fusings now to 20-40, they will still be annoyed as fuck when they don't get their 4l, 5l, or 6l.
In CB people crafted because there was a lack of options, in OB there's too many options for selling for way less than it costs to craft it yourself. Jacking up the drop rate will just cause inflation. The solution is to fix the items and mods on them. Raise the base values, lower the rolls, remove some levels of rolls and people will be more willing to use stuff like divines knowing they can actually have a large improvement. With maps it's removing the required rolls of maze/+area/etc or making the harder mods worth much more.
Give people more orbs just makes shit more expensive, it doesn't solve anything. You can make assumptions but I was here from CB when everything was much cheaper. At that time there was only a handful of people with 10 exalts. More people came in, it became much easier to get orbs and the prices of items followed. You are either ignoring inflation or don't care because you want to craft and that's all that matters to you, but part of the game is trading and you can't just ignore it because it's not something you enjoy doing.
Finished 17th in Rampage - Peaked at 11th
Finished 18th in Torment/Bloodline 1mo Race - peaked at 9th
Null's Inclination Build 2.1.0 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1559063
Summon Skeleton 1.3 - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1219856
It should of been expected by GGG that their would be a lot of RMT and other cheating. That happens in all games though. The problem is that in this game it has snowballed too fast due to the map system. People don't just need to RMT for gear but also for XP.
Once RMT takes over the economy suffers from hyper inflation and the farmers need ways to farm faster, so hacking becomes more profitable. It's a viscous circle because a high level player who gets hacked needs to them RMT or just quit the game.
A week ago, I watched one of top ladder streamer groups, just before they paused for 15 minutes, you could hear two people in background, one saying they are out of good maps and other asking if anyone has any cash left on their paypal account. 2+2..
If I took an hour or two to browse a couple of rmt-auction sites or rm trading forums, jsp etc, I could give you a direct link to at least 10 (out of your 20 top ladder) of those people's threads on various rm sites, since most of them aren't even bothering concealing their identity or are making the exact same nicknames like in the game and linking to their sales on PoE forums.
Hell, a few weeks back, I remember seeing several alpha testers doing the exact same thing on multiple sites, even one forum mod.
So, I'll ask again, whats new?
As for GGG staff trying to catch and ban as many as possible.. just another horrible mistake. Way more powerful and richer companies tried to do the same before with their games, never anything good came out of it.
Instead, you fight rmt's in the game, on your own playing field. You change and regulate the economy so it becomes unprofitable for them to operate in PoE.. and they will move on to another game.
I mean c'mon.. you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure something like ^ up..
If fusings are twice as common, more players can spend over 1k fusings. Do I like that fusings are completely random and arbitrary and non-cummulative? Do I like that if you've spent 2k fusings and don't have a 6l that you're no closer than if you spent 0? No, of course not.
But that's not what was being discussed. What is being discussed is whether or not a higher orb drop rate would encourage people to spend orbs instead of simply hoarding them as currency. As an extreme example, ask yourself, if Exalteds were as common as Augmentations, would people be more or less willing to use them on their items to try to improve them? I think the answer is quite obvious. The solution isn't perfect, but it undoubtedly improves people's willingness to craft.
No, it wouldn't. Because if it takes a thousand exalts to buy the piece of gear they've been dying to get they won't want to waste exalts on their gear to get % light radius.
If you double the fusing rate people will go from having 10-20 fusings now to 20-40, they will still be annoyed as fuck when they don't get their 4l, 5l, or 6l.
In CB people crafted because there was a lack of options, in OB there's too many options for selling for way less than it costs to craft it yourself. Jacking up the drop rate will just cause inflation. The solution is to fix the items and mods on them. Raise the base values, lower the rolls, remove some levels of rolls and people will be more willing to use stuff like divines knowing they can actually have a large improvement. With maps it's removing the required rolls of maze/+area/etc or making the harder mods worth much more.
Give people more orbs just makes shit more expensive, it doesn't solve anything. You can make assumptions but I was here from CB when everything was much cheaper. At that time there was only a handful of people with 10 exalts. More people came in, it became much easier to get orbs and the prices of items followed. You are either ignoring inflation or don't care because you want to craft and that's all that matters to you, but part of the game is trading and you can't just ignore it because it's not something you enjoy doing.
He's right. Top items in this game are so hard to attain that it gives the no lifers an easy monopoly.
It's not simply "This wand is an upgrade" but rather "I NEED that wand for my build" The more people who need a niche wand the more expensive said wand will be. A lot of times there is only one maybe two wands on the market that meet those requirements.
Case and point this wand. I died with this character in hardcore but to do the build I needed high mana regen and obviously damage. This wand only has two good mods on it for me and I still had to pay something like 3 exalteds because the owner had a monopoly and others wanted it as well
The current kaoms problem exists because like it or not this uncommon unique is still more common then a high end 6l armor. Probably even more common then a high end 4l armor.
That whole issue comes right back to maps. High end items come from high Ilvl zones. We all need to be grinding in high Ilvl zones to even have a chance at uncovering the treasures the monster's gold.
As stated when there is only one item for everyone to bid on there is a monopoly and the seller can get whatever he wants for it. Half the time these people realize the item is so rare they just waste the bidders time by not even selling the item.
I still have a bunch of currency, something like 40 chaos orbs 17 gcp's an exalted a couple gmp's etc, But when I hit level 73 in hardcore searching for items was harder then playing the game.
The current map situation is Kipling End game.
It isn't like Diablo 3 where we all hit end game and prices hit the floor because bots are also getting those end game items. It's a unique problem where those items are barely even accessible.
As already stated maps need not be a part of the leveling process but something to do for when at high levels.
I ask you this, If maps are required to progress how can it be considered special end game content?
If fusings are twice as common, more players can spend over 1k fusings. Do I like that fusings are completely random and arbitrary and non-cummulative? Do I like that if you've spent 2k fusings and don't have a 6l that you're no closer than if you spent 0? No, of course not.
But that's not what was being discussed. What is being discussed is whether or not a higher orb drop rate would encourage people to spend orbs instead of simply hoarding them as currency. As an extreme example, ask yourself, if Exalteds were as common as Augmentations, would people be more or less willing to use them on their items to try to improve them? I think the answer is quite obvious. The solution isn't perfect, but it undoubtedly improves people's willingness to craft.
No, it wouldn't. Because if it takes a thousand exalts to buy the piece of gear they've been dying to get they won't want to waste exalts on their gear to get % light radius.
If you double the fusing rate people will go from having 10-20 fusings now to 20-40, they will still be annoyed as fuck when they don't get their 4l, 5l, or 6l.
In CB people crafted because there was a lack of options, in OB there's too many options for selling for way less than it costs to craft it yourself. Jacking up the drop rate will just cause inflation. The solution is to fix the items and mods on them. Raise the base values, lower the rolls, remove some levels of rolls and people will be more willing to use stuff like divines knowing they can actually have a large improvement. With maps it's removing the required rolls of maze/+area/etc or making the harder mods worth much more.
Give people more orbs just makes shit more expensive, it doesn't solve anything. You can make assumptions but I was here from CB when everything was much cheaper. At that time there was only a handful of people with 10 exalts. More people came in, it became much easier to get orbs and the prices of items followed. You are either ignoring inflation or don't care because you want to craft and that's all that matters to you, but part of the game is trading and you can't just ignore it because it's not something you enjoy doing.
Ask yourself this as a extreme example. If orb exchange rates stayed the way they are, except exalted were as common as augmentations (you were literally swimming in orbs), would you craft? I know I would.
I'm aware you'd get price inflation. I'm aware the real value of items will remain the same. A Kaom's will always be worth more than certain armors. This much is obvious and nothing new. The OPPORTUNITY COST changes. And Opportunity Cost is the real dictation of what people choose to do with their resources.
So you can either hoard 1000 exalteds to trade for decent gear, or you can gamble those 1000 exalteds (and tens of thousands of chaos) and hope you get something good. I know that if you gave me 10k chaos on a good base, I will probably find one of them acceptable for my needs.
Secondly, when it comes to maps, they are expensive to roll. Considering the number of orbs to roll them doesn't really change, the cost to roll maps would be cheaper if they were more common. This makes it more sustainable for people who aren't extremely wealthy to roll their maps.
Last edited by UnderOmerta#1203 on May 13, 2013, 7:48:08 PM
If fusings are twice as common, more players can spend over 1k fusings. Do I like that fusings are completely random and arbitrary and non-cummulative? Do I like that if you've spent 2k fusings and don't have a 6l that you're no closer than if you spent 0? No, of course not.
But that's not what was being discussed. What is being discussed is whether or not a higher orb drop rate would encourage people to spend orbs instead of simply hoarding them as currency. As an extreme example, ask yourself, if Exalteds were as common as Augmentations, would people be more or less willing to use them on their items to try to improve them? I think the answer is quite obvious. The solution isn't perfect, but it undoubtedly improves people's willingness to craft.
No, it wouldn't. Because if it takes a thousand exalts to buy the piece of gear they've been dying to get they won't want to waste exalts on their gear to get % light radius.
If you double the fusing rate people will go from having 10-20 fusings now to 20-40, they will still be annoyed as fuck when they don't get their 4l, 5l, or 6l.
In CB people crafted because there was a lack of options, in OB there's too many options for selling for way less than it costs to craft it yourself. Jacking up the drop rate will just cause inflation. The solution is to fix the items and mods on them. Raise the base values, lower the rolls, remove some levels of rolls and people will be more willing to use stuff like divines knowing they can actually have a large improvement. With maps it's removing the required rolls of maze/+area/etc or making the harder mods worth much more.
Give people more orbs just makes shit more expensive, it doesn't solve anything. You can make assumptions but I was here from CB when everything was much cheaper. At that time there was only a handful of people with 10 exalts. More people came in, it became much easier to get orbs and the prices of items followed. You are either ignoring inflation or don't care because you want to craft and that's all that matters to you, but part of the game is trading and you can't just ignore it because it's not something you enjoy doing.
Ask yourself this as a extreme example. If orb exchange rates stayed the way they are, except exalted were as common as augmentations (you were literally swimming in orbs), would you craft? I know I would.
I'm aware you'd get price inflation. I'm aware the real value of items will remain the same. A Kaom's will always be worth more than certain armors. This much is obvious and nothing new. The OPPORTUNITY COST changes. And Opportunity Cost is the real dictation of what people choose to do with their resources.
So you can either hoard 1000 exalteds to trade for decent gear, or you can gamble those 1000 exalteds (and tens of thousands of chaos) and hope you get something good. I know that if you gave me 10k chaos on a good base, I will probably find one of them acceptable for my needs.
Secondly, when it comes to maps, they are expensive to roll. Considering the number of orbs to roll them doesn't really change, the cost to roll maps would be cheaper if they were more common. This makes it more sustainable for people who aren't extremely wealthy to roll their maps.
Having more orbs just saturates the markets and makes rare items more expensive. High level maps would still be stupidly expensive and so would high Ilvl items.
If you make it easier to access high level maps then it becomes a regular part of the game...
Which is the current problem...
We need those godly Ilvl 77 items so we need to be running 77 content.
We need maps separated from "end game" and mandatory.
Having more orbs just saturates the markets and makes rare items more expensive. High level maps would still be stupidly expensive and so would high Ilvl items.
If you make it easier to access high level maps then it becomes a regular part of the game...
Which is the current problem...
We need those godly Ilvl 77 items so we need to be running 77 content.
We need maps separated from "end game" and mandatory.
It's amazing how little people comprehend in this forum. Truly is. Yes, I'm aware that having more orbs saturates the market and creates inflation. That said, it raises the opportunity cost of hoarding orbs because the alternative is using them on items you find. If the game dropped significantly more chaos orbs, then you'd be able to have significantly more chances to achieve something nice on a high ilvl base. More people would, instead of hoarding the much larger number of orbs needed to trade due to inflation, would turn to crafting because the number of orbs it takes to make something decent has not changed.
I do not see how this is even debatable. If people don't understand opportunity cost, they should not be discussing the economic implications of increasing the supply of orbs.
Having more orbs just saturates the markets and makes rare items more expensive. High level maps would still be stupidly expensive and so would high Ilvl items.
If you make it easier to access high level maps then it becomes a regular part of the game...
Which is the current problem...
We need those godly Ilvl 77 items so we need to be running 77 content.
We need maps separated from "end game" and mandatory.
It's amazing how little people comprehend in this forum. Truly is. Yes, I'm aware that having more orbs saturates the market and creates inflation. That said, it raises the opportunity cost of hoarding orbs because the alternative is using them on items you find. If the game dropped significantly more chaos orbs, then you'd be able to have significantly more chances to achieve something nice on a high ilvl base. More people would, instead of hoarding the much larger number of orbs needed to trade due to inflation, would turn to crafting because the number of orbs it takes to make something decent has not changed.
I do not see how this is even debatable. If people don't understand opportunity cost, they should not be discussing the economic implications of increasing the supply of orbs.
Let me put it to you this way.
Say you have an Ilvl 77 prismatic ring.
If orbs are are expensive then a good roll on this ring should make it worth a ton right?
Well if more orbs are available it would just make the medium items near worthless because the high end items would be easier accessed.
So in this example the only reason that Ilvl 77 ring would be valuable currently is because of the high base.
You are asking for the same thing that they did in Diablo 3 "Increase the drop rate" If you go look at that game you will see why that's a bad idea.
Currency is the same thing as items, You may not perceive it that way but it is.
