How would the Poe2 elites feel about level 100 in campaign?
" for real you might be right, and i'm hoping that maybe act 4-6 will set up new players to hop into end game and understanding it as well as the campaign helps the players understand things |
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" honestly no. i like levelling to endgame on a first character taking maybe 8 hours, on an alt about 4 hours via twink gear, and then im in endgame where i spend 100s of hours doing endgame content designed for mass grinding while gaining xp and still never reach level 100. thats how i want the game to function. i will die on the hill of keeping xp penalty in poe1. in poe2 im less convinced, i think objectively the idea of losing the map via 1 portal, the content on the node and losing the xp you gained in that map is probably punishing enough without the whole 10% loss. but for me personally its whatever. keeping the 1 portal punishment in poe2 is a hill ill die on, i think that needs to stay. imo its the best punishment mechanic of all the arpgs. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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" Full honesty, and truly not being on the attack here....it won't. Unless the player is willing, or has a bit of self-drive to learn things on their own, the game will NEVER provide enough information to "understand" everything. That is GGG and that is PoE. It will 100% be the case for PoE 2. I can say that with absolute certainty. It is also the nature of temporary leagues. A player that starts this game in 2 years, is now going to contend with 6-8 leagues of new material that likely were fully fleshed out and explained DURING the league itself, but not anymore. Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 18, 2025, 4:15:14 PM
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" Agreed. Campaign is opening up a map instance and killing mobs and bosses. Maps is opening up a map instance and killing maps and bosses. If they gave us the Atlas at level 10 (with monster level 10), I'd probably start mapping right then and never do the campaign... as I prefer the ability to spawn league mechanics like Breech and Delirium. For me, the enjoyment falloff has nothing to do with campaign vs maps, but happens because around level 40-60 the gameplay falls off the fun cliff into aoe-nonsense. This isn't something that can be fixed by extending the campaign, but would have to be fixed by either (a) retooling the progression to maintain combo gameplay, or (b) providing an alternate progression path of "challenge gameplay" with maps that have 20x FEWER enemies, with 20x MORE health, and 20x MORE loot. Something more like maps with only mega buffed rares and no trash. I'm interested in what the OP thinks is "better about the campaign" from a gameplay perspective. Last edited by KuroSF#6521 on Jan 18, 2025, 4:19:11 PM
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" But why is it good? |
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" The biggest punishment mechanic in POE2 is the gameplay turning to utter boredom. I mean really, who cares if you have 1-portal or unlimited-portals if all you are doing is THIS: I AM THE BLIZZARD...【AOE Blaster Invoker】Melts all content in EZ MODE! PoE 2 - YouTube You can't pay me to spend my time playing this kind of gameplay. I would rather post on forums, it's more engaging. |
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" But here's whats great about that: you never ever have to play that! Starting anew....with PoE 2
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" You're right - that build looks far too slow for my taste. Blink Comet Autobomber builds have much better mobility and clear speed... https://youtu.be/e0VjwRv-soQ?t=1391 There, much better and more fun. |
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KuroSF#6521 & cowmoo275#3095 let me try to articulate it better what I think is "different" about the campaign vs end game
lets talk about the campaign from the perspective of acts 1-3. I believe some of the complaints about cruel mode being too easy, or level 40-60 being an aoe blasting one shot bonanza, both stem from the fact that cruel is just a placeholder, and it wasn't designed with the same care as acts 1-3. so for the sake of discussion lets regard acts 1-3 as the only true campaign as of now another important aspect of my personal gameplay was that I took the approach of "no spoilers" to the best that I could. I wanted to experience this game for the first time myself, and not just look up someone elses build and copy it. I wanted to learn the game from the game. and at first the game really does this perfectly during the campaign, players were slowly introduced to each game mechanic. starting on the river bank you learn weapons, skill gems, offhand, mobs, basic attack, and reach your first boss. it teaches potions and dodge roll. As you progress, each new enemy has a new attacks and behavior, which depending on your build, may require the player to adapt to. this is most especially apparent on the first playthrough when you have no extra gold or resources. then, there are build checks, like the Count. When I first played, I maximized single target damage which meant the count's adds were problematic for me. this forced me to add aoe skills, and that adaptation made me stronger for act 2. these checks continue to occur naturally, and the player is rewarded for trying new systems when they hit a roadblock. Mess up your build? its ok respec is cheap. vendor items and drops are bad? you can get a good pair of boots from gambling if you saved all those points thus far. although the campaign wasn't perfect, and act 2 had some confusing sections, the game teaches the player one lesson at a time as long as the player keeps playing. the players character gets stronger as a direct result of these lessons. All the while, your failure becomes your success, and the game rewards you for failing then adapting. The most fun part being learning each new boss. fail the boss? no problem respawn and try immediately again when endgame hits, the game doesn't do anything the same as above. to start out, it doesn't explain anything. there are rituals, breeches, and deleriums? well why do I want to do these things? HOW do I do these things. am I SUPPOSED to do these things now? I had literally collected currency from these events and put them in a tab named something like "Not In Game EA" because I couldn't figure out where to use the expedition currency. My quest is telling me do Tier maps, so I just focus on that for now, the map is endless after all, maybe those things are for later. Also, the learning through failure and reaching reward is completely missing in end game. if you fail, you lose the map, the exp, and often it might be unclear what caused your death. max fire resist, 4k es, and I died to a meteor shrine? wait is that right, or maybe i missed some chaos damage aoe? hmmm im not sure, so i wont make a change to my build and I don't become better as a result of the failure. the fun of experiencing each new area, new boss mechanic, new mob mechanic, they are all gone because its all reused assets from before. and now, unlike the ENTIRE GAME you just completed, you are not meant to dance with the enemy. now you should be running non stop through each map like its a marathon simulator. I started doing rituals and I can't even find an omen. The in game lessons are now lessons that can only be taught by alt tabbing the game, and opening google. players say you can trade in game, but i don't think you can easily trade in game without studying the economy in a browser first, so open google. want to learn what ritual has to offer? google it. well throughout act 1-3 the game WAS great without a browser open. nothing needed elaboration. now instead of failure meaning your success, failure means you have lost your entire play session of progress. all of this is going on while maps feel stale, not unique, and more of a chore than one moment of growth followed by another. I think that is the reason people fixate on exp loss because they love the campaign and they think, maybe if I was still making ANY progress, I would like this end game. I have the option (and it would be so easy) to look up an OP build and swap my skills and BOOM, i'd be mopping T16 breaches like I mope T16 maps. The problem is this whole journey took me from level 1-90 and i loved it. it allowed me to make slow incremental changes to my character and I dont want to kill that character completely to proceed. in act 1-3 you improved any build to work. in maps you must abandon it. I don't think the game should allow any build to get lvl 1-90 and tier 16 maps, but then require a complete respec to fit these league mechanics that are so alien to the rest of the feeling of the campaign I dunno I have a fever today of 100, so I look up at this vomit and suspect its probably some of my worst writing, but I tried to articulate some differences better while my sinuses are on fire over here boys. |
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" Here's the problem: this is ONLY true of your very first playthrough of that campaign. It will NEVER ever be the same experience moving forward. Because the learning is done. What you experienced on your first campaign, or even your tenth, will fade quickly away. It stops being a progression tutoring, and more of a progression HINDERING. That is why the endgame is designed the way it is. It takes TIME to learn, that is where the true replayability lies. But when you focus on the things you find to be the most interesting when you first experience them, you open the doors yourself and push them to the absolute limits. Even if they were to extend the campaign as per your idea, you will never have the same experience because....again....the learning stage is done. Now its just a matter of getting to the end. But this also illustrates WHY the endgame MUST be the way it is: if they were to continue "teaching" you in the same way the campaign did, it will completely destroy replayability. Instead, the endgame teaches you to LEARN differently. It stops holding your hand as much because, presumably, you can make certain leaps of understanding on your own. When you learn to read a book, you don't just learn to read THAT particular book: you take those skills and expand them into NEW content, all on your own. People are also so unwilling to FAIL every now and then. You act like its some binary choice "I could follow the meta and blast everything, or I can't do anything": but there is extensive middle ground there, to be built upon every single character you ever make. This isn't a 1-month long game. This is a LIFETIME game. You call out PoE 2 elites in your title: well some of those people have been playing PoE 1 for 12+ YEARS. Years: not weeks, not days, not hours, but YEARS. Starting anew....with PoE 2 Last edited by cowmoo275#3095 on Jan 18, 2025, 5:30:46 PM
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