The interview had major "Do you not have phones?" energy

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

Which League, how many deaths, and how much trading was involved?

There are no leagues yet what are you taking about? Lol I'm taking about EA. Lots of deaths for sure, campaign is brutal but it's SC. ~200 or so. I sold my high end drops and bought high end gear, handfuls of 1Ex-20Ex pieces sold sometimes. I didn't do any crafting/flipping/etc for profit like I normally do in 1 leagues.


All this is just a sidestep of my question. Where is the evidence that the game is directly intentionally balanced around players having MF? I've never seen anything at all. No dev comments etc. Closest thing is nerfing of the highest ends of MF when T17s came out in 1. It always just sounds like FOMO getting the better of people. 500% MF simply doesn't make up for having a good farming strategy. Having both is a way to min-max for sure, but nothing is gatekept or unobtainable in the game with 0% rarity.

SC Trade / HC Trade / SC SSF / HC SSF are the different Leagues.

Your point was that "keeping your gear up to date with 0 rarity is not a problem because you did it".
You have 200 deaths, so that suggests otherwise.
You also traded to keep it up to date, so your initial point is moot.
Which is why the question was relevant, and my point stands:

Rarity is mandatory to get the necessary Regal / Exalt Orbs to upgrade your gear.
And you will need a bunch of them, because we have gacha crafting, as opposed to actual crafting.

Just because you can circumvent the issue in trade league and can smash your head against the wall 200 times until you progress in SC, doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist.

All my campaign gear was from the ground or slamming, I didn't buy anything until late game maps. Deaths were easily avoidable honestly I just played like it was PoE1 and tried to stream roll everything while leaning the campaign. Second character died three times and into maps his only hand me down was a cheap Pillar of the Caged God.


You're still completely ignoring my question. What evidence do you have from any devs that three drops you get at 0% rarity aren't at the intended levels? It may be lower than you like, and I'll even agree more "crafting" currency so we can slam more freely cold be a good thing. But it's also completely possible this 9% rarity drop rate is exactly the balance they want.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

All my campaign gear was from the ground or slamming, I didn't buy anything until late game maps. Deaths were easily avoidable honestly I just played like it was PoE1 and tried to stream roll everything while leaning the campaign. Second character died three times and into maps his only hand me down was a cheap Pillar of the Caged God.


You're still completely ignoring my question. What evidence do you have from any devs that three drops you get at 0% rarity aren't at the intended levels? It may be lower than you like, and I'll even agree more "crafting" currency so we can slam more freely cold be a good thing. But it's also completely possible this 9% rarity drop rate is exactly the balance they want.

He has no evidence. Just like with anything else hes claiming.
Its like this:
"Game is bad"
-"Why is the game bad?"
"Because drops are balanced around having rarity"
-"Where did you see or hear that drops are balanced around having rarity?"
"Oh you have a private profile and only 2 supporter packs, also the campaign is bad"

Also how many deaths you have is not in any way relevant to what you said.
People can have alot of deaths because the campaign is hard, they struggled on a boss, they tested different builds in maps, its completetly irrelevant to weither or not you can gear up without rarity. I geared my first char completetly up with a 100+div build aswell with no rarity. And my first char was a blood mage so it wasnt excactly a walk in the park.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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KaosuRyoko#1633 wrote:

All my campaign gear was from the ground or slamming, I didn't buy anything until late game maps. Deaths were easily avoidable honestly I just played like it was PoE1 and tried to stream roll everything while leaning the campaign. Second character died three times and into maps his only hand me down was a cheap Pillar of the Caged God.


You're still completely ignoring my question. What evidence do you have from any devs that three drops you get at 0% rarity aren't at the intended levels? It may be lower than you like, and I'll even agree more "crafting" currency so we can slam more freely cold be a good thing. But it's also completely possible this 9% rarity drop rate is exactly the balance they want.

He has no evidence. Just like with anything else hes claiming.
Its like this:
"Game is bad"
-"Why is the game bad?"
"Because drops are balanced around having rarity"
-"Where did you see or hear that drops are balanced around having rarity?"
"Oh you have a private profile and only 2 supporter packs, also the campaign is bad"

Also how many deaths you have is not in any way relevant to what you said.
People can have alot of deaths because the campaign is hard, they struggled on a boss, they tested different builds in maps, its completetly irrelevant to weither or not you can gear up without rarity. I geared my first char completetly up with a 100+div build aswell with no rarity. And my first char was a blood mage so it wasnt excactly a walk in the park.

For sure. As with all public forums I'm repeating the question more so someone else might chime in. Not really expecting that same person to have any epiphanies or anything.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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Fae_Lyth#6750 wrote:

I'll repeat what I said:
Rarity not only affects how much currency you get, but also the type of Orb.
No rarity = Transmutation = worthless.
Rarity = Exalt = useful.
Therefore, Rarity = Quantity+.

Yes but repeating it doesnt make any sense when I just gave you an example of how your wrong. Your trying to use one example in a vacuum (which is what ghazzy did) to make the case that it shouldnt be here since they removed it from poe1.

But the fact is that rarity is vastly different and you cant consider things in a vacuum.

Okay, I generally disagree with OP, but your arguments in this particular conversation thread have been a bit disingenuous. That another modifier could stack multiplicatively with the current rarity is irrelevant. You could also just have two quantity modifiers that stacked multiplicatively. So that isn't really evidence that Rarity != Quantity.

Anyway, OP expresses it poorly, but what they're getting at is that, in a Trade League (where there is a currency exchange), getting higher tier currency is functionally the same as getting more lower tier currency.

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drkekyll#1294 wrote:

Okay, I generally disagree with OP, but your arguments in this particular conversation thread have been a bit disingenuous. That another modifier could stack multiplicatively with the current rarity is irrelevant. You could also just have two quantity modifiers that stacked multiplicatively. So that isn't really evidence that Rarity != Quantity.

Anyway, OP expresses it poorly, but what they're getting at is that, in a Trade League (where there is a currency exchange), getting higher tier currency is functionally the same as getting more lower tier currency.

1. How have I been disingenious?

2. Quantity x Quantity would not yield the same results as Rarity x Quantity does, yet again proving my point that their not the same, it would be like me saying that 4 is the same as 5 because you could multiply 4 with both of them. Your being illogical.

Also I feel it incredibly stupid having to explain at such a basic and detailed level why quantity isnt the same as rarity when it should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about the game, its two vastly different mechanics that affect different things and have different impacts. If it was the same then why would it be called two different things? I could make multiple examples but honestly it would just be sounding condescending at this point, would be like explaining to a grown man that the grass is green.

Beta testing isn't for everyone.
End of the day, this ggg's game.

not even reading this except for the title. bro got it twisted, come back into the real world

To me the stream was good overall in transparency, acknowledging there are issues and admitting some issues they still have to think about or figure out with more data.

However, the melee issue was a bit disappointing. They feel it is okay in campaign. It can do everything in the game, sure, but it just is not as worthwhile or fun. It can be remedied somewhat like in PoE1, albeit it is still not as good as ranged in PoE1 either. The skill mechanics (jumping around, hopping backwards, etc.) are built for a different type of ARPG while the game itself, and the enemies therein, work more like PoE1.

The rarity thing was probably the one I actually did not like the answer to. The explanation given makes sense from the developer and designer point of view but is out of step with what the player wants/needs.

If it was real life, it boiled down to: you do your 9-5 job, and at the end of the day you get a stack of bills. Both you and your coworker did the same thing, used the same tools, and used the same uniform. Your coworker however wore nicer shoes in a color the boss likes. His stack of bills is the same height as yours, and the same amount of bills, except his stack has many $50s and $100s and your stack is mostly $5s, $10s, and $20s. And the boss says, "You're both getting the same amount of bills, and it's only a problem if you value more what you can spend later. You're fine."

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

1. How have I been disingenious?

Nevermind. Apparently, it's not intentional.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

2. Quantity x Quantity would not yield the same results as Rarity x Quantity does, yet again proving my point that their not the same, it would be like me saying that 4 is the same as 5 because you could multiply 4 with both of them. Your being illogical.

They... absolutely could yield the same results. It's literally a matter of what values you choose to give them. And the claim is closer to saying "3 x 4 is functionally the same as 2 x 6" than what you suggested.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

Also I feel it incredibly stupid having to explain at such a basic and detailed level why quantity isnt the same as rarity when it should be obvious to anyone who understands anything about the game, its two vastly different mechanics that affect different things and have different impacts. If it was the same then why would it be called two different things? I could make multiple examples but honestly it would just be sounding condescending at this point, would be like explaining to a grown man that the grass is green.

I find it incredibly stupid to have to explain to someone that two things needn't actually be identical to function the same. If you can exchange higher tier currency for more lower tier currency, then rarity is functionally quantity. It's baffling to me that you can't understand this.

my response to the GGG interview...

and maybe i am too cynical here. I am HOPING for the best because some aspects of poe2 are actually AMAZING... a 10/10 experience but i notice a devolution of gameplay in maps.


HERE IS MY POST:

This is a serious issue. And for Jonathan Rogers to come out and say that at some point in the game you are meant to feel incredibly powerful... is a massive red flag. That power fantasy mediocrity that defined poe1 and diablo4 is gameplay that people largely get sick of. There is a reason why poe1's zoomfest screen clearing gameplay didn't appeal to the majority of players who tried it.

Instead of expanding the audience towards more sophisticated methodical gameplay like what they showed in previews it seems we may end up stuck with this... ''one shot or be one shot'' gameplay loop.

That kind of poor design might destroy the future potential of the game. But I guess they can take over diablo's audience and just turn poe2 into a shut off your brain stat check experience and a legion of people will be happy. But it will not make for the best gameplay experience.


People largely love the campaign... but map gameplay largely is mediocre and uninspired. feels like a copy paste from poe1. Last gen experience in a new next gen combat package. It feels undercooked imo.

Maps need more interesting things happening and I don't understand how the best feature of the game... BOSSES.... aren't available on every single map. They could even be OPTIONAL and NOT required to BEAT the map. But give us the OPTION to engage with that fantastic content. What a waste. All these resources put into 100 unique bosses and they make up 0.01% of the gameplay. I feel so sorry for those developers who will never get the respect they deserve while someone who traded 1 exalt for a good weapon shows up and the boss dies within 10 seconds.


PARTIAL SOLUTION FOR MAPS: more enemy HP, less enemy damage, smaller maps. = more meaningful combat.

Please share your thoughts and ideas...