Do all the XP penalty complainers just body brigade through the game? Honest question

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

No one who ever got to 100 would call it skilled gameplay or good, you play risk averse and do easy content for hours.

Right, that is awful gameplay. It certainly isn't the "challenge" people keep insisting it is.

I think the reason a lot of people think that's a good challenge is because they literally don't play any other games or any other genres. They don't know how non-isometric-ARPGs work at all. They have no ability to differentiate between something being challenging and fun/rewarding versus simply being a long, drawn out slog that takes unreasonable amounts of time. There is no nuance with these people. They literally don't have the capacity to even understand where we're coming from, because all they know is sitting on POE for 16 hours a day with no frame of reference for how things could be different.

a couple of you guys are blaming on death punishment when you should be upset about the XP curve. Which seems kinda over the top for a game thats supposed to be slower paced than POE1. But thats got nothing to do with XP loss on death. They are two different things that are related. You're blaming one of the consequences of poor play that's supposed to keep you from winning automatically by throwing your face at content. When what you're really unhappy about is the XP curve, and unfair, unsignaled one shots.

Unearned deaths are rampant in POE1 and I have a long history of criticizing that while also supporting consequences against poor play.

Notice a pattern? a Badly tuned XP curve and one shots are both things that make a game poorly designed.

Penalties for poor play are things that make a game well designed.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

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BK2710#6123 wrote:

Exciting challenge, game working as intended by boring me to death. Makes me never want to return since the time requirement for a max character is way too much.

You think getting to level cap quickly = good gameplay? I have a game for you, its called D4. It honestly sounds like you're caught up in the illusion that the fun part of a game is when you reach the end and there's nothing left to do.

If your focus is on playing the game that makes the most money for a large corporation then D4 is the game for you. You're also their perfect customer because you apparently care about them making money more than gameplay.

My focus is on games where the choices feel impactful, well crafted, and the gameplay isn't dumb.

Yeah totally that ^^

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

shallow trash for normies and guide gamers.

Does... does being one of the few who can stand the game and get to the end make you think you aren't shallow trash? My man, we are all currently arguing about a video game on a forum. We are shallow nerd trash. Embrace it instead of insisting it makes you cool.

My dude I grew up in the Revenge of the Nerds era of being a nerd. The era where chess club kids got clowned on by D&D club kids who got clowned on by EVERYONE ELSE.

I don't think anything about playing games makes ANYONE cool. It doesn't make me anything except an enjoyer of arguably the most fun and least expensive hobby that ever existed.

I also am on record as not thinking getting to 100 is any sort of a big deal at all. If you want to then sure have fun, its mostly boring. Also just posted that focusing on lvl100 is just the end of the game and is kinda pointless.

All that is to say I think you've got a poor read on my motives if you think thats why I like consequences in games especially.

The problem lies in how long it takes to gain exp, and how boring it tends to be, vs. how rapidly you tend to die in this game, how much exp you lose, and how unfair the deaths often are.

Such as:

Zealot meteors
Kalguran Expedition glyph casters
Plaguebringer corpse explosion
Various rare & blue post-morten explosions
Overtuned Ritual modifiers
River Hags
etc

Combine this with the fact that you lose your entire juiced waystone on any death, and highly juiced waystones tend to take a long time to recreate based on how RNG heavy the Atlas is. Yes getting 95 - 100 is obtainable, but good god why would anyone want to do it as it stands?

Allow me to simplify and translate OP's message for you:

If you keep dying repeatedly because you're trying to experiment and play any of the 100+ horribly slow, painfully underpowered skills that don't instantly melt entire screens of monsters, just give up and play Spark like everyone else.

To OP:

If nobody ever experimented with ideas, you would never have the builds you play that "outscale the content." These builds are DISCOVERED through experimenting. The issue is you are BRUTALLY punished and make ZERO progress whatsoever while you're experimenting with ideas because the game has mechanics that INSTANTLY punish you by orders of magnitude larger than what it actually rewards you when you actually succeed. When I put in lower tier maps as you suggest, I get like 0-1% of my level per map. ONE death erases 10-20 maps worth of success. That's insane.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

a couple of you guys are blaming on death punishment when you should be upset about the XP curve. Which seems kinda over the top for a game thats supposed to be slower paced than POE1. But thats got nothing to do with XP loss on death. They are two different things that are related. You're blaming one of the consequences of poor play that's supposed to keep you from winning automatically by throwing your face at content. When what you're really unhappy about is the XP curve, and unfair, unsignaled one shots.

Unearned deaths are rampant in POE1 and I have a long history of criticizing that while also supporting consequences against poor play.

Notice a pattern? a Badly tuned XP curve and one shots are both things that make a game poorly designed.

Penalties for poor play are things that make a game well designed.

How is "You should get a lot more XP" not "making the game too easy" when switching the on death penalty to XP debt is making it too easy? Again, no one is saying there shouldn't be penalties for poor play. We just want penalties that encourage fun gameplay. XP loss doesn't.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

All that is to say I think you've got a poor read on my motives if you think thats why I like consequences in games especially.

Just a heads up then, probably shouldn't call people who like different things than you "trash". Kinda makes it seem like feeling superior is your only reason. And again, we all like consequences. We don't like this very specific one.

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

How is "You should get a lot more XP" not "making the game too easy" when switching the on death penalty to XP debt is making it too easy? Again, no one is saying there shouldn't be penalties for poor play. We just want penalties that encourage fun gameplay. XP loss doesn't.

I've never said the XP curve is well balanced.

I am not currently trying (or giving a shit) about getting to lvl100 but from what I see of Carn who's still not at 100 as of the other day when I looked, the current curve is solidly pegged into the "way too hard" side of things. Hard in terms of time investment. IMO If you want a slow paced game this XP curve is just dumb. Even a try hard streamer isn't 100 something like three weeks to a month in.

This rerally has nothing to do with a penalty that mostly serves to discourage people from throwing their body at the game instead of adapting and making better choices AKA gaming.

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

All that is to say I think you've got a poor read on my motives if you think thats why I like consequences in games especially.

Just a heads up then, probably shouldn't call people who like different things than you "trash". Kinda makes it seem like feeling superior is your only reason. And again, we all like consequences. We don't like this very specific one.

I called the game shallow trash, I said those games are aimed at or cater to normies and guide gamers. Not controversial statements in gamer circles. If you or others want to adopt insult I can't do anything about that.

You're not going to find a lot of people around here who don't consider D4 or most MMO's to be shallow trash, dumbed down to appeal to the widest possible audience..