It's 2025, and XP Penalties on Death Still Exist?

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Outdated mechanics,archaic like that should be abandoned in the year 2000 where they belong and forgotten forever, they have no place in a game in the year 2025 lmao

Exp loss and other death penalties only exist to artificially inflate playtime and player engagement metrics while also annoying the player and wasting their time, there is no other reason for this mechanic. It was simply used in ancient games to force players to sink more time into them.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

And yet you do feel entitled to assign motives to other people, regardless of what they say their motives are.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Hmm. Well, it seems like you've got the entire thing figured out then.

Everyone just has emotional control problems, is bad at the game, and they're entitled because they want to hit level 100.

Everyone else is just projecting their insecurities onto GGG, and you can see right through it because you're emotionally stable, and not entitled.

Which is why you're going around telling everyone their opinions are wrong, because you know better. Right?

Please, if you think there is other reasons for people to complain about the XP loss on death, do elaborate, in details. Go for it, I'm all hears and willing to learn from you.

Meanwhile, no, no opinion is wrong. Ever. That's the point of an opinion ; to be a subjective representation of an idea or/and a feelings. But this isn't an opinion forum, it's a feedback forum. And while feedback uses opinions as a root, it also uses data as references :

You can say XP loss is an issue. But if your only arguments are : "I don't like dying, I want level 100, but I can't reach it, please nerf" it just highlights YOU have problems playing the game, on emotional and skill levels ; it's not a feedback, it's a entitled tantrum.

You could instead say "I think the enemy damage on this tier is too high compared to my defense investment" or even "the amount of XP per map compared to the associated risk is too low" which would be valid feedback if also provided with informations about your build and gameplay ; which is rarely the cases in most posts.

Again, there is not reasons to want to reach level 100 that bad as to complain so much on the forums that there is a huge issue in the designs. It's not needed, and it's just a golden carrot at the end of the ENDGAME (which isn't the GAME, it's a endless time sink for people willing to min max their characters potentially for ever ; don't mistake one for the other).

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Please, if you think there is other reasons for people to complain about the XP loss on death, do elaborate, in details. Go for it, I'm all hears and willing to learn from you.

It's simple.

Not everyone plays a game to be good at it. Or compete. Or to be a top player.

Some people value a fun, and enjoyable experience in a game. And a mechanic like XP loss on death. Isn't fun for lots of people.

They don't enjoy it. It doesn't mean they have emotional problems, or that they're unskilled, or that they feel entitled to level 100.

They just want to get to level 100, while having a good chill time, gaming.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Meanwhile, no, no opinion is wrong. Ever. That's the point of an opinion ; to be a subjective representation of an idea or/and a feelings. But this isn't an opinion forum, it's a feedback forum. And while feedback uses opinions as a root, it also uses data as references :

Then why do you feel it necessary to step into every thread talking about XP loss on death, and tell people they're wrong, and how they feel?

You obviously think the opinion of not wanting XP loss on death, is invalid. Otherwise you wouldn't be doing this.

But your issue is that you only look at it from your perspective. You value the mechanic. You value the fact that you could overcome it emotionally. You value that it adds a bit of difficulty to the game, and takes more skill.

Not everyone feels like this about it. Not everyone plays a game for the same reasons as you.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

You can say XP loss is an issue. But if your only arguments are : "I don't like dying, I want level 100, but I can't reach it, please nerf" it just highlights YOU have problems playing the game, on emotional and skill levels ; it's not a feedback, it's a entitled tantrum.

So, if I say. I want to hit level 100, and have a good fun time doing it, and that a mechanic like XP loss on death makes the experience worse. I'm just having an entitled tantrum, and I need to get better at the game?

So, what you're doing here, is invalidating someones feelings on the game, because you don't value them or consider them valid.

People aren't allowed to say they want the game to be less frustrating, and more enjoyable. Because you know better. They're all just bad, entitled, tantrum throwing babies who need to get good at the game right?

Didn't you just say that all opinions are valid?

Yet, here you are. Telling me others opinions aren't valid, because they're using an argument, based on a feeling. That you don't agree with.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

You could instead say "I think the enemy damage on this tier is too high compared to my defense investment" or even "the amount of XP per map compared to the associated risk is too low" which would be valid feedback if also provided with informations about your build and gameplay ; which is rarely the cases in most posts.

Well, I said this to you once before. No one is obligated to give feedback in the form that you agree with.

Feedback can be given in terms of feelings too. And lots of players currently feel, less enjoyment in the game, because of frustrating mechanics like XP loss on death.

So, are you going to continue arguing with them about it on the forums? Because, that's all I see you doing. You invalidate others feelings, and then insert your own perception, and it's usually in a very demeaning, devaluing way.

Calling others emotionally unstable for one. Or they're just 'having a tantrum'.

You do realize, this is what invalidation looks like right? It's a toxic form of communication, and it shows that you're unable to consider others viewpoints as valid. And the more you do it. The more entitled, and superior you act?

Tell me, why do you browse the forums to 'correct' peoples viewpoints on XP loss on death again?

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Again, there is not reasons to want to reach level 100 that bad as to complain so much on the forums that there is a huge issue in the designs. It's not needed, and it's just a golden carrot at the end of the ENDGAME (which isn't the GAME, it's a endless time sink for people willing to min max their characters potentially for ever ; don't mistake one for the other).

Some people just like having a Max level character. I enjoy it because I get a sense of completion from it. I don't care if I'm stronger because of it. I just like seeing that 100 next to my character. It's how I enjoy playing the game. It's what I feel is fun.

It doesn't matter that it's not needed. I understand that logically it makes no sense to you. I am not making the statement with logic though. I am speaking from a feeling. And when you say something like this, all you are doing is telling me that how I feel, is invalid.

You've been doing this to almost everyone you talk to.

You only recognize your feelings, and your thoughts as valid. And everyone elses, well. They're just throwing tantrums, or entitled. And they have no reason to be level 100, because you don't see a logical reason that you agree with for it.

Maybe take some time and go look up invalidation. It's useful to learn to not do it, as it's a very unhealthy form of communication. And it doesn't let you interact with others in a meaningful way.



I want to also take the argument to an extreme. So you can see how ridiculous it is.

"I tried playing Call of Duty, but I was just getting frustrated because I kept getting killed as soon as I spawned. There was someone sitting there shooting people the second they spawned, and it make it so i couldn't play the game. It made me quit."

"Yeah, well. That's just a skill issue. You're not entitled to play the game, and if you want to, you're going to have to deal with a mechanic like that. It's just the nature of the game. Spawncamping has always been in video games and you're acting entitled by asking for it to be removed. I don't have an issue with spawn camping, because I'm usually the one doing it, so it never impacts me. You just need to get better at the game and stop complaining. Maybe this game just isn't for you, have you tried playing Minecraft instead?"

This is what you sound like whenever someone types something about XP loss on death. Straight up like you don't even listen, and you're just there to insert your viewpoint, and put others down.

The other person was frustrated, and probably pissed off that they couldn't play the game and enjoy it. And then you come along, telling them how wrong they are, and that they're bad, etc etc.

Yes, they sure do. Crazy right? Other games don't, go play those.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Some people value a fun, and enjoyable experience in a game. And a mechanic like XP loss on death. Isn't fun for lots of people.

They don't enjoy it. It doesn't mean they have emotional problems, or that they're unskilled, or that they feel entitled to level 100.

They just want to get to level 100, while having a good chill time, gaming.

You fail to understand, still and again, that the ENDGAME isn't the GAME.

While you can casually finish the GAME, the 6 Acts, featuring awesome and various landscapes, quests, musics, enemies, and little secrets and challenges, and also building a quite good and almost final build for your characters (level 1-70) with all gems and most talents ; which is designed to be played, playable, accessible and enjoyed by most players, it isn't the place to sink an infinite amount of time and to be truly challenged.

That what the ENDGAME is about : to sink time a seek challenge infinitely while also being punished for a bad build or a bad play. If people step into the ENDGAME (of any game for that matter) and expect to clear it in a few hours, ho boy, they couldn't be more wrong ; that's not why it's designed for. It's a place to keep playing around the designs for rarers loot to try to min-max a character (70-100) for the challenge of min-maxing ad vitam eternam, period.

D2 did not have an ENDGAME, and yet, after finishing the campaign on all difficulties, ARPG players still played the same maps over and over again for 25 freaking years. GGG knows some players like to do that and trade the results of their grinds, so they had the decency of designing on the top of their GAME an infinite and replayable ENDGAME with the atlas, maps, and uniques bosses, just to satisfy the need for moar. And it's a punitive time sink, as expected.

Can you stop believing everyone starting PoE2 should reach the end of the ENDGAME please ? I'd always encourage them to try to finish the GAME, that's for sure, if they want, if they can, but stopping after that is really OK too. I wouldn't advise anyone to try to finish the ENDGAME, because it's not made for that.

People thinking otherwise, as in, being entitled enough to think and ask for level 100 to more accessible, are just not understanding the definition of ENDGAME compared to the GAME. Fail to make this simple distinction and you'll only end up frustrated for not reaching max level easily.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Some people value a fun, and enjoyable experience in a game. And a mechanic like XP loss on death. Isn't fun for lots of people.

They don't enjoy it. It doesn't mean they have emotional problems, or that they're unskilled, or that they feel entitled to level 100.

They just want to get to level 100, while having a good chill time, gaming.

You fail to understand, still and again, that the ENDGAME isn't the GAME.

While you can casually finish the GAME, the 6 Acts, featuring awesome and various landscapes, quests, musics, enemies, and little secrets and challenges, and also building a quite good and almost final build for your characters (level 1-70) with all gems and most talents ; which is designed to be played, playable, accessible and enjoyed by most players it isn't the place to sink an infinite amount of time and to be truly challenged.

The endgame is it's whole own campaign, like in PoE1. The endgame is when your build is largely active, having most of it's stuff to function as desired.

The endgame is half if not more of the freaking games.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

You fail to understand, still and again, that the ENDGAME isn't the GAME.

While you can casually finish the GAME, the 6 Acts, featuring awesome and various landscapes, quests, musics, enemies, and little secrets and challenges, and also building a quite good and almost final build for your characters (level 1-70) with all gems and most talents ; which is designed to be played, playable, accessible and enjoyed by most players, it isn't the place to sink an infinite amount of time and to be truly challenged.

That what the ENDGAME is about : to sink time a seek challenge infinitely while also being punished for a bad build or a bad play. If people step into the ENDGAME (of any game for that matter) and expect to clear it in a few hours, ho boy, they couldn't be more wrong ; that's not why it's designed for. It's a place to keep playing around the designs for rarers loot to try to min-max a character (70-100) for the challenge of min-maxing ad vitam eternam, period.

D2 did not have an ENDGAME, and yet, after finishing the campaign on all difficulties, ARPG players still played the same maps over and over again for 25 freaking years. GGG knows some players like to do that and trade the results of their grinds, so they had the decency of designing on the top of their GAME an infinite and replayable ENDGAME with the atlas, maps, and uniques bosses, just to satisfy the need for moar. And it's a punitive time sink, as expected.

Can you stop believing everyone starting PoE2 should reach the end of the ENDGAME please ? I'd always encourage them to try to finish the GAME, that's for sure, if they want, if they can, but stopping after that is really OK too. I wouldn't advise anyone to try to finish the ENDGAME, because it's not made for that.

People thinking otherwise, as in, being entitled enough to think and ask for level 100 to more accessible, are just not understanding the definition of ENDGAME compared to the GAME. Fail to make this simple distinction and you'll only end up frustrated for not reaching max level easily.

Try again dwqrf. I'll be patient with you.

Read my whole message again. Then look at how you're responding in this one. Do it a few times. Then come back and we can talk again.

Really look at what I said. About how Feelings are valid feedback. And how you aren't considering what others are saying they feel.

I currently feel like I am not being heard. It feels like you're only in this conversation, to be right.

I'm not debating anything with you, I'm not arguing with you. I'm merely sharing my feelings on the matter at hand.

I'm not asking for the game to be easier. I'm not asking for anything to be more accessible.

All I stated, was that I wanted the game to be less frustrating. I play video games to have a good, relaxing experience. To enjoy an evening.

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mrfox123#7595 wrote:

The endgame is it's whole own campaign, like in PoE1. The endgame is when your build is largely active, having most of it's stuff to function as desired.

The endgame is half if not more of the freaking games.

Yes, but the ENDGAME is using all the art, music, enemies and maps from the GAME. It just using existing data as proceduraly generated content to try things out and farm some more. Their is a couple of goals, but it's moslty rehashed assets. PoE2 isn't just a bunch of numbers, it's also a mountain of work for the style, animations, visual design and effects, and so much more. Don't dismiss the hard work.

Things is, every single PoE2 player will go through the campaign, the GAME. Not everyone will explore the atlas, the ENDGAME, and only few will ever finish it. It's not mandatory content.

EXP loss needs to stay for level 100 to have a meaning.

If EXP loss is gone, you could just throw a non working bad build at the game and reach 100 eventually over time.

PoE2 has many problems but EXP loss is not one of them.

GGG should stop balancing the game arround oneshot mechanics, remove visual clutter so you can actually see on death effects and fix broken defences (armor formula in particular) and add a death recap.

Thus getting killed would not feel so random and unfair, like it is now.

But EXP loss needs to stay.

-Player in the game dies and loses xp
-Player gets frustrated
-Player plays more and then dies again
-Player gets more frustrated and then stops playing

But this is retaining players guys