ARPG and Souls Like are like oil and water, just a match made in hell.

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djfriez#2023 wrote:

Fundamentally, souls like difficulty relies on rapid iteration.

The general loop of gameplay is this:
- attempt a boss.
- "you died".
- respawn at bonfire.
- quickly get back to the fight to try again, learning from your mistake.

In the campaign, actually this is pulled off fairly well because you have checkpoints right next to the boss.

However, trials where you have to grind three floors of dungeon just to get a glimpse of a boss? Or maps, where one mistake unceremoniously kicks you out?

You don't have that rapid iteration there.

Other "super hard" games also have this iteration. Think super meatboy for example:
- Play level
- accidentally throw yourself into a buzz saw
- instant respawn
- try again

This is a core design principle that GGG have to take heed of if they want to truly make poe2 work as a souls like ARPG. They have that in some places of the game, i.e. the main campaign, which is why I think many are enjoying the campaign.

But that pattern is completely devoid in other areas of the game where people are voicing the most pain.

Trials for example, punitively punish players with a huge slog of multiple floors of dungeon just to get that "one chance" at a boss, doesn't really work. Instead, it sorta forces a lot of players to just overlevel their character and attempt to trivialize the content instead.

It's actually the same problem people had with the lab in poe1, although Izaro is MUCH easier than the sanctum stuff they have in poe2. It's not the fight with the boss that's really the problem, it's the slog you have to do just to reach the fight.

The trials would literally be better as a single multi-phase boss fight that is tough as hell, with well telegraphed deadly skills. Give players the challenge that they can rapidly iterate and learn the mechanics to succeed. Oneshot deaths feel less fake when players can actually see the mistake "oh yeah, that big charge up, maybe I should've dodged that?" and then immediately re-attempt this time with a bit more skill.

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AnimePillowCollector#225 wrote:

I came here to post this. It's not soulslike because in souls you actually practice the boss and beat it, rather than look up a youtube video first because you only have one chance.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

You guys should go watch endgame and realize that exploding map screens is still a thing.

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Dxt44#4050 wrote:

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

You guys should go watch endgame and realize that exploding map screens is still a thing.

Literally everyone knows that. What are you even on about?

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ScandiDiver#0604 wrote:

In my opinion POE2 campaign are just tedious in several ways. I have not seen all interviews, but i have seen them talk about POE2 are ment to be more beginner and casual friendly, and expected a more beginner friendly game then POE1, but it´s the opposite...

- Making it tediously hard similar to a souls like with dodge mechanics are not beginner friendly. Also it´s conflicting design like oil and water.

- Souls like games are designed mostly to play through the campaign and then the game are basically finished. It´s okey it takes a bit extra time and in need to practice boss mechanics, or get stuck in need to farm up a little to progress.

- ARPGs on the other hand with frequent season resets are designed around end-game and frequently level new characters, so it just feels tedious for the campaign/leveling to be like a souls like game.

- Not to speak about the screen clutter and souls like dodge mechanic combo, souls like games have relatively few enemies with telegraphed attacks, so yes, dodge mechanics works good then. But in POE2 the screen are either often so overfilled with mobs you can´t dodge roll even if you try and also the screen often so cluttered with visual effects it´s difficult to even see the mechanics you are supposed to dodge roll from.

- In my opinion ARPGs campaign/leveling need to be smooth and easy compared to a souls like, if you do all quests and pickup/buy all upgrades you come across, it should never be a situation where you character are so weak you need to go back and farm and act to beat a act boss. And i would dare to say overwhelming majority of ARPG fans agree with this, hense the huge amount of copmlaints.



Overall, as the game is now. The souls like/arpg combo just feels like a tedious match in hell.

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alhazred70#2994 wrote:

you'd know if you read the post you replied to lol.