An Open Letter to GGG RE: One Portal
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The one portal decision feels too much frustrating for the game in the long term. However, like some others, I can see a few positive aspects to it. Ideally i would prefer a better option whithouth necessarily returning to the six portals.
The current implementation could work well as part of a "Ruthless" PoE 2 mode, way more challenging than softcore but still less punishing than hardcore. For maps, perhaps checkpoints could be introduced, maybe two per map and another one in front of map boss. Upon reaching each checkpoint you could use another portal. It could provide three portals total, helping to mitigate random one-shots. This system would still require careful play, particularly at the start of a map when no checkpoints have been found. The checkpoint system would also help address the layout issues that force players to backtrack through a map because they missed a rare enemy at the start as it was made for campaign. Three portals per player would also make sense with all the duo couch co-op promotion they are doing for the game. This would offer a fair challenge without being overly punishing. For boss instances, the obvious solution is to provide six portals but reset the boss's life whenever we die, similar to how it worked in the campaign. edit : sry if i sound weird i'm not english and used a traductor Last edited by BURNOTOR#1409 on Dec 19, 2024, 10:01:20 PM
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Nobody’s addressing the core of OP’s feedback, which is that the one map/one death system is especially repellent to new players. Most of us are PoE veterans who are willing to (often begrudgingly) put up with the new system because we know that grinding out maps is how you sustain your map pool - and your own economy. But most newcomers are going to hit a major wall after seeing themselves wipe to T3 maps over and over. Frustrated, they’ll complain and leave. This doesn’t mean we need to coddle new players, but it does mean the current endgame needs to do a better job of easing players into an endgame that is vastly different from the slow, methodical slugfest that they learned from the Campaign.
Something else I haven’t seen anyone else bring up is the knock-on effects the one map/one death system has on map sustain and the greater economy. In PoE1, it’s pretty easy to sustain high-tier maps. Once you get enough currency to buy some T14s, you can ‘seed’ your map pool and sustain red maps if your defenses and damage meet the baseline. That’s not the case in PoE2. Even juiced T13s will drop one, maybe two T13s per run. This is what the current mapping experience looks like right now: - Maps are much more valuable than in PoE1 because they are more lethal, take longer to clear, and are rarer as a whole - Because the consequences for dying in a map are severe (you lose the map, you lose all the loot inside, you lose the exalt and whatever else you used to invest in the map, you lose a lot of exp), you’re encouraged to play safe maps early on. Losing even one or two T13s means a lot of your econ could go down the drain from just one laggy desync death. Map prices are higher as a result. - If you die just a few times due to bad map layout or bad rare affixes, you can easily get knocked down several tiers below what your build can handle. Your T14 has been dropping T6s this whole time, for some reason. As a result, you feel like your mapping has stalled out because you need to build all the way back up to a red map (unless you go buy another). None of this is intuitive for a new player. Hell, most ARPG players probably won’t figure this out on their own. We can sit and laugh at the plebs for not sticking around and getting gud, but how does that help anything? More importantly, it’s bad for GGG’s bottom line. Face it: if GGG wants to retain players, they need to cater to them just a little bit - not make them feel like they’re paddling alone in an open ocean. Removing or reworking the penalty for dying can help ease that frustration for new players. So what’s the solution? Honestly, I have no idea. That’s for GGG to figure out. But I do have a few suggestions: - Make maps close after one death like they do now, but give waystones three ‘charges.’ This would keep the sting of dying almost as painful as it is now; you lose exp and all of the yummy potential loot. But maybe you ran up against a Volatile Plants/Mana Drain/Flask Drain rare pack in a tight corridor that turned your butthole inside out (all awful affixes that deserve their own feedback, but the way). You felt like you died a cheap death. Shucks! But at least the map you invested currency into has two attempts left. Time to change your loadout a bit, take a deep breath, and hop back in. - Give players three portals. Deaths will still feel punishing, but not nearly as deflating. And you usually only need one or two to back out to make a trade at your hideout, anyway, so that's not much of an issue (which is also harder now thanks to the long cast time for portals). - Just bring back six portals. Maybe make the number of portals scale with map rarity, tier, or both. Higher reward, higher risk. I wouldn’t be surprised if the current currency price inflation is due to how much more valuable individual maps are now, thanks to their increased risk at even a basic level. That’s before we consider the usual PoE problems of bots and RMT farmers influencing the market, of course. I also assume that GGG wants us to reforge the mountain of low-tier maps we get in red maps into higher-tier maps at the Reforging Station. Which is... really tedious, to say the least. Moreso than vendoring maps for higher-tier maps in PoE1. For the record, I've played PoE1 since open beta - back when all we had were the first two acts, and Ball Lightning dropping wasn't even intended. I've taken multiple characters to 95+, beaten pinnacle content with them, and have run melee builds in almost every season up until Scourge (which is when I last stopped playing). I've gotten HHs and other chase gear through smart mapping and trading upward. I've even found a Mirror on the ground. I appreciate GGG scaling back player power in PoE2; PoE1 player power is simply too high after years of power creep. The zoomzoom nerfs needed to happen if the game were to maintain its integrity. But I feel like GGG overcorrected too far in the other direction. Mapping is exhausting in PoE2. I don't feel rewarded for not dying in consecutive maps. Just tired. Other PoE veterans I've talked to have had similar opinions, despite us all agreeing that PoE2's game feel is a massive improvement over PoE1. At this point, retaining even dedicated players might be difficult if they start burning out on the endgame loop. And the reason why more people aren't complaining about mapping is because most of the newcomers are still trudging their way through the campaign. Thankfully, there's plenty of time for GGG to tweak the mapping experience. So I hope they're paying close attention to threads like these and not just reading the "git gud" posts to validate their design decisions. EDIT: Clarity Last edited by Gwonam#5505 on Dec 19, 2024, 10:30:29 PM
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" This guy gets it |
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I think we just need a way for the player to choose. If players want more portals, they should have to give up rarity/quanity on their maps to make it fair to the players that prefer the challenge of one portal. Maybe allow players to start with 6 portals (at T1) and then get rid of portals on their atlas passive tree. For each removed portal, boost the effects of rarity/quant nodes on the tree.
The problem is if people want more portals with no downside. Then I completely disagree and think that ruins the game for people that enjoy the challenge. |
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" Fair, something like what you mentioned or 20% less xp or gold gained for each portal are options as well. |
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Put extra portal chance in the tree.
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In the beginning I always thought that if you fail a map that you just lose the bonus that exists on that atlas tile (breach, boss, whatever). Thats how it should be, that would be already punishing enough for the player. No need to take away the waypoint, its already hard enough to sustain.
Thats the next problem, I get T1 waypoint drops in T15, should literally never happen, but thats another topic. Last edited by Crusher152#2587 on Dec 20, 2024, 2:42:05 AM
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+1
Without 6 portals there is no way I play poe2 nor I buy any supporter pack |
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How about some middle ground? 3 portals for normal waystones. And one portal for a waystone that roll a specific mod on the waystone for doubled rewards?
As it is, it seems that it is made frustrating for the sake of making it frustrating. |
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Oh, I didn't know players lose EXP when a character dies. This is so stupid and old-school. In other words, it takes away part of your progression. I don't play games when players lose EXP. It shows a lack of innovation when it comes to punishment. Let's see how early access will be ended.
But I didn't realise that some players still exist and like this mechanic. Last edited by Robotukas#1808 on Dec 20, 2024, 2:50:16 AM
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