Toxic Streamers are attempting to ruin POE2. Damage limits would be a good idea.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

Because, like the loot, it's needed for the overall health of the game. I'm capable of thinking and foresight, so I can see something that's going to be a big problem for people and extrapolate the outcome if nothing changes. This is exactly the same situation that happened in D4. The people who got to the end first pointed out all the cracks, and the insufferable "purists" like you still fell through them because they thought they knew better.

This is almost 1:1 the same situation.

WOW i never suspected for you to be so empathetic of others. how nice of you.. also d4 lol

You're right, you should totally discount that game instead of learning to avoid the mistakes that were made. And I'm not selfish like you , yes. I don't worry about how others play because it's not my definition of fun. Before the loot change I called out the need for a loot change when I was progressing just fine, read my posts if you want. When they fix the endgame, you can come back to this post and scream furiously into your pillow as you mourn the death of your "hardcore" ARPG while GGG enjoys increased player retention to keep the game going.

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

ADDITIONAL SOLUTION: if damage limits with a sliding percentage are implemented then how about for boss damage as well? one hit kills? what if the incidence of one hit kills would drop? not entirely removed but happen with less frequency.

damage to bosses can have sliding scale reduction if you have massive dps.... and bosses too will deal less damage with their ''one hit'' mega damage skills. of course having a poorly geared character should still mean death. so this just has to be applied in a creative and clever fashion.

That's hilarious. No for real. Let me tell you how.
In PoE1, yes PoE1, there is a mechanic on uber bosses. They have 90% damage mitigation at the start of the fight, and that mitigation goes away overtime. That way big DD can show off his burst, and lower DPS can wait few seconds and still take the boss down.

Sooooooo, are you saying we should do like PoE1 ?

to extend the battle? sounds good but i cannot speak to that actual boss and it's design. we should try to focus on what can work for poe2. if a boss can exist for at least 30-60 seconds.... so you can see the mechanics... that would be healthy for the game. the devs didn't spend so much time designing amazing bosses only for us to not experience them properly.

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

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rob_korn#1745 wrote:

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

ADDITIONAL SOLUTION: if damage limits with a sliding percentage are implemented then how about for boss damage as well? one hit kills? what if the incidence of one hit kills would drop? not entirely removed but happen with less frequency.

damage to bosses can have sliding scale reduction if you have massive dps.... and bosses too will deal less damage with their ''one hit'' mega damage skills. of course having a poorly geared character should still mean death. so this just has to be applied in a creative and clever fashion.

That's hilarious. No for real. Let me tell you how.
In PoE1, yes PoE1, there is a mechanic on uber bosses. They have 90% damage mitigation at the start of the fight, and that mitigation goes away overtime. That way big DD can show off his burst, and lower DPS can wait few seconds and still take the boss down.

Sooooooo, are you saying we should do like PoE1 ?

to extend the battle? sounds good but i cannot speak to that actual boss and it's design. we should try to focus on what can work for poe2. if a boss can exist for at least 30-60 seconds.... so you can see the mechanics... that would be healthy for the game. the devs didn't spend so much time designing amazing bosses

Fixed your quote.

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

speedrunning is a horrible way to play. most gamers... when you look beyond the streamer community just want to have fun and play a good game. they don't care about blasting through in record time.


but what i am suggesting is this: you can still speedrun.... and still beat maps quickly... but when you get to the boss instead of it being a 5-10 second fight because your build is OP maybe it takes 35 seconds. So some level of survival would have to kick in and the devs who spend countless hours designing these bosses don't have their work gone to waste and the player gets to actually see the boss mechanics. I don't think any of them intended for the bosses to die rapidly.

people are so individualistic unfortunately and the big picture i think is lost

The big picture?

The "big picture" is the next ten years. Twenty. Whatever. PoE 1 stayed relevant for 10+ years (and is still going) because of the endgame. It was/is the best in any game in any genre. And the campaign? 10 acts, and a skilled players could run through them all in about 4 hours. And many did, because the endgame was/is the "real game".

So "the big picture" here, is "will players return every season in PoE 2, creating several characters for the endgame"? Well, the LONGER the campaign is, the smaller the chances are. Especially when players feel that zones are needlessly large and some bosses are needlessly tanky to the point of GGG balancing it that way JUST because it will take longer.

PoE 2 has failed if it can't make people return league after league. And the endgame will always be what makes people return. If the road to get there is too long, to difficult, too tedious or too boring, they won't return. Maybe for the first league or two, while the campaign is still... Somewhat new. But after that? Well, only time will show.

i guess it depends how our brains are wired. i never appreciated it except in one game that was entirely designed on it. Super Meat Boy. That was exhilarating to try and reach the best times. but in a game like this does it really speak to a fulfilling and rewarding experience if we're almost skipping through bosses because our gear and build are too strong? Life is short.... why waste it on trying to exploit the content? Maybe feeling powerful is part of the appeal but i have an opposite perspective on it. I feel more powerful and like i achieved something if i can beat a boss with a wooden stick rather than a god hammer. just an example. obviously it wouldn't really be a wooden stick. that is where i get my sense of reward. no fancy gear. just having a great time with what appears to be low damage as a monk vs the act 1 boss for instance. that was very iconic for me to actually bring him down. meanwhile my 2nd char... warrior... game feels far too easy in comparison though it might just be a lucky weapon drop.


I kind of just want a good balance. but i wonder how to solve the big Leveling problem... If there is too much challenge for the campaign then leveling characters will take a while. And will players enjoy that enough? Some might, some wont. I might not. Life is short enough. I kind of feel I would want the option to get a L30 character if I make it to L60 with another. Something to mitigate the leveling process at least partially.

What do you guys think?

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Auralysist#4050 wrote:

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

speedrunning is a horrible way to play. most gamers... when you look beyond the streamer community just want to have fun and play a good game. they don't care about blasting through in record time.


but what i am suggesting is this: you can still speedrun.... and still beat maps quickly... but when you get to the boss instead of it being a 5-10 second fight because your build is OP maybe it takes 35 seconds. So some level of survival would have to kick in and the devs who spend countless hours designing these bosses don't have their work gone to waste and the player gets to actually see the boss mechanics. I don't think any of them intended for the bosses to die rapidly.

people are so individualistic unfortunately and the big picture i think is lost

I like speedrunning, and that is just your opinion. Gamers are individualistic, and rather than trying to do everything you can to stop the top 1% of the playerbase, focus on addressing other things, there are many issues in this game I can point out that are much more glaring right now. I'm not against appreciating the work of the artists and designers and the love put into the bosses. But you can't stop players from ignoring that effort entirely, it's just part of the process. Unfortunately, this is a genre of games where players blowing up bosses, is an inevitability.

reposting this because it's most relevant here:


I kind of just want a good balance. but i wonder how to solve the big Leveling problem... If there is too much challenge for the campaign then leveling characters will take a while. And will players enjoy that enough? Some might, some wont. I might not. Life is short enough. I kind of feel I would want the option to get a L30 character if I make it to L60 with another. Something to mitigate the leveling process at least partially.

What do you think? Since yes... leveling each time through a much longer campaign.... could be tedious. for 2nd character maybe not. but for a 3rd or 4th and 5th..... Life is short. I don't think I want to keep doing that.

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

speedrunning is a horrible way to play. most gamers... when you look beyond the streamer community just want to have fun and play a good game. they don't care about blasting through in record time.


but what i am suggesting is this: you can still speedrun.... and still beat maps quickly... but when you get to the boss instead of it being a 5-10 second fight because your build is OP maybe it takes 35 seconds. So some level of survival would have to kick in and the devs who spend countless hours designing these bosses don't have their work gone to waste and the player gets to actually see the boss mechanics. I don't think any of them intended for the bosses to die rapidly.

people are so individualistic unfortunately and the big picture i think is lost

The big picture?

The "big picture" is the next ten years. Twenty. Whatever. PoE 1 stayed relevant for 10+ years (and is still going) because of the endgame. It was/is the best in any game in any genre. And the campaign? 10 acts, and a skilled players could run through them all in about 4 hours. And many did, because the endgame was/is the "real game".

So "the big picture" here, is "will players return every season in PoE 2, creating several characters for the endgame"? Well, the LONGER the campaign is, the smaller the chances are. Especially when players feel that zones are needlessly large and some bosses are needlessly tanky to the point of GGG balancing it that way JUST because it will take longer.

PoE 2 has failed if it can't make people return league after league. And the endgame will always be what makes people return. If the road to get there is too long, to difficult, too tedious or too boring, they won't return. Maybe for the first league or two, while the campaign is still... Somewhat new. But after that? Well, only time will show.

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IcyMistV#5121 wrote:

i guess it depends how our brains are wired. i never appreciated it except in one game that was entirely designed on it. Super Meat Boy. That was exhilarating to try and reach the best times. but in a game like this does it really speak to a fulfilling and rewarding experience if we're almost skipping through bosses because our gear and build are too strong? Life is short.... why waste it on trying to exploit the content? Maybe feeling powerful is part of the appeal but i have an opposite perspective on it. I feel more powerful and like i achieved something if i can beat a boss with a wooden stick rather than a god hammer. just an example. obviously it wouldn't really be a wooden stick. that is where i get my sense of reward. no fancy gear. just having a great time with what appears to be low damage as a monk vs the act 1 boss for instance. that was very iconic for me to actually bring him down. meanwhile my 2nd char... warrior... game feels far too easy in comparison though it might just be a lucky weapon drop.


I kind of just want a good balance. but i wonder how to solve the big Leveling problem... If there is too much challenge for the campaign then leveling characters will take a while. And will players enjoy that enough? Some might, some wont. I might not. Life is short enough. I kind of feel I would want the option to get a L30 character if I make it to L60 with another. Something to mitigate the leveling process at least partially.

What do you guys think?

I get the perspective, but not everyone plays the same. Devs can't balance around all players. If you make a boss take an extra minute, if the person didn't enjoy the boss, they still won't appreciate the boss's design more for that extra minute, but they'll probably be annoyed about it. The main things that I'm thinking of are the long term, I want this to be a game i want to come back to every league, go through the campaign and get to that point where I can really start grinding for those big drops and currency. I don't need to be blasting the screen, but I don't need the game fighting me every moment that I try to feel some form of power. THat's what this genre is to me, I enjoy the building and tinkering of my builds, or trying some weird off beat build that feels like it shouldn't work, but then when it does, it's fun. This is a game that's gonna go F2P and try to pull people back in every league, if I'm dreading having to slog through the campaign each league because it's artificially difficult, then I don't see a reason to come back to it.

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AnimePillowCollector#2255 wrote:

The game's very complex and only going to get more complex when they add the other 6 classes. I worry about their ability to balance any of it from what I've seen.

That´s the fun part, they never will, and they should never do, broken stuff will be created every new league, people have fun that way, breaking the game is the fun, and if you came here thinking an arpg with a tree with 1500+ passive and a skill system that gives you freedom to mix, match and customize would be balanced i have bad news for you.

See that´s what bothers me most as a PoE 1 vet, they cant balance the game (understandably) and never will, and as new classes, new skills, new league content drops it will get closer and closer to PoE 1 (wich is a way better game btw), and so it leads me to the question, why? why did they had to dumb down half of the game mechanics? why did they had to change core stuff that noone ever asked for? All they needed to do was an engine update with better visuals and animations, give some lead to new players, make a new campaign and add the new classes etc.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

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Mr_Vagtastic#4761 wrote:

You're right, you should totally discount that game instead of learning to avoid the mistakes that were made. And I'm not selfish like you , yes. I don't worry about how others play because it's not my definition of fun. Before the loot change I called out the need for a loot change when I was progressing just fine, read my posts if you want. When they fix the endgame, you can come back to this post and scream furiously into your pillow as you mourn the death of your "hardcore" ARPG while GGG enjoys increased player retention to keep the game going.

yeah, you are so kind you provide feedback on what others enjoy and what they dislike and find problematic. things that don't bother you at all but you can clearly see them bothering others and so you are their voice. you can even tell that my and OPs opinions and feedback are just not good at all and invalid. i'm also glad you provided me with advice on what i have to do in despair, and you did it in a very respectable manner. truly valuable member of the community.

I'm glad something is finally getting through to you. Now quit whining and start looking for your next game!

Not that I agree with all of OP's suggestions, but there is a valid point regarding the ultra hardcore players unintentionally affecting everyone else through their behavior. Problem is not that many players actually care about theorycrafting and min-maxing their builds to that extent, most players are running undergeared, sub-optimal builds through the campaign so they're forced to engage with boss mechanics the hard way. The min-maxers with their OP builds is part of the reason why some campaign bosses are as they are and yet to be nerfed because they make everything seem easy.

I say this because of the Forgemaster and Viper, these two are even more ridiculous than Jamanra, the HP pool is absolutely ridiculous for these two, makes me wonder who playtested them in Alpha and what builds they were running and how on earth they thought it would be fine to force everyone, the vast majority of casual players included to fight them in the current state. Forgemaster isn't hard at all to dodge, but the enrage timer/ hard dps check is not what ARPGs boasting build diversity is supposed to be about. Imagine if Elden Ring bosses have an enrage timer and force you to do max dps, FromSoft would never consider anything like this because it's just flat out contradictory to the idea of 'slow, methodical, skill-based' combat. Since gearing up when you're stuck at a boss isn't realistic, you're forcing players to look up guides online, and I'm not talking about boss guides for MMORPGs or soulslike where you learn boss mechanics, I mean build guides on how to min-max damage, so players stuck at these ridiculously designed and tuned bosses will be shoehorned to use the same skills and same gems and same passive tree talents just to stand a chance. This goes against build diversity and player choice, pillars of the ARPG experience.