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They need more gems, they don't need to allow you to socket two of the game gem. The game is balanced around not doing that, and your choices become much more meaningful as a result.
I don't want another game where we just slap the same meta gems on every single skill.
THIS.
The reason we feel the need to double up on gems is because the number of actually useful gems is actually quite low.
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Posted bySoop#0082on Dec 17, 2024, 2:25:21 AM
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They need more gems, they don't need to allow you to socket two of the game gem. The game is balanced around not doing that, and your choices become much more meaningful as a result.
I don't want another game where we just slap the same meta gems on every single skill.
Poe1 had 13 years of success with this feature and it was never a problem. it created no balancing issues what so ever and there were thousands of build options because of it.
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Posted bybobtank#2490on Dec 17, 2024, 2:25:28 AM
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no balancing issues what so ever
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Posted byCosmic711#3173on Dec 17, 2024, 2:29:39 AM
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This is silly. You may think limiting options stifles creativity but as seen in most games it tends to have the opposite effect because the game gets balanced around it. While leveling I was constantly switching around support gems to see what works best. Sure, there's a meta. There will ALWAYS be a meta and I'm sure GGG has plenty of data from PoE1 how many people tend to follow the meta by looking at some build guide.
If they did this we'd all be using increased AoE, physical/elemental damage, and attack/cast speed in most if not all of our skills. Many gems would become useless and they'd have to completely rebalance everything.
Maybe if something like allotting spirit to use duplicates of a support gem was suggested there would be more consideration here.
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Posted bysleepyx732#4635on Dec 17, 2024, 2:45:03 AM
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no balancing issues what so ever
this build also wouldve taken atleast a week to farm the items for, so whats your point? you're not going to league start a build that can AFK uber bosses, unless you go RF or something. the point is that this is now not even a potential option.
Last edited by bobtank#2490 on Dec 17, 2024, 1:36:53 PM
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Posted bybobtank#2490on Dec 17, 2024, 2:52:32 AM
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The limitation is fine. We just need more support gems to use, but many are not in the game yet. There's also plenty of bugged supports that just don't work on skills that they should.
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Posted byKirana#3430on Dec 17, 2024, 2:56:16 AM
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I will quote @Cmagik#1657 who summarised it very well why the limit is good for the game.
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The logic is that they struggled to come up with different support gems because when anything can be socketed any amount of time, you end up like in PoE1 where 90% of skills use the same 10 support because that's the best thing to do. You got 100 support but only 10 are used 90% of the time, the remaining 10% are just for the little variation in skill innerworking.
For instance,
"Increased fire damage". why wouldn't you put this on all your fire spell?
If all fire skill end up with "Increased fire damage" as support, you might as well remove it and make it baseline. Repeat that for most damaging support (which were always the 3-4 first socket used in PoE1 for almost every single skill) and you end up with much less supports.
Then the same problem arises with utility support. If you don't need to invest that 3-4 socket into damaging support, then you can use utility. And again, most frost skill will use the same support, most fire too etc etc.
You end up where realistically you should include everything and only allow for 1-2 support with "weird unique effect". But that's not what they want.
So, in an interview, they explain that someone came up with this idea. "If the issue is that we socket the same things everywhere, why not add a limit of 1 support per build".
Then out of the sudden, +30% fire damage makes sens because it can only be used on a single skill. Same for some support.
Things like
+40% AoE
or
+50% AoE but induce a CD
also make sens because without the limitation, most of the time +40% AoE is better. But if there's a limitation then you can have "less good" support or more situational support.
The decision was made as to avoid PoE1 situation where your true "support choice" are 1 gem at best per 6L. You got no choice, you just pick whatever grants the most dmg.
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This is silly. You may think limiting options stifles creativity but as seen in most games it tends to have the opposite effect because the game gets balanced around it. While leveling I was constantly switching around support gems to see what works best. Sure, there's a meta. There will ALWAYS be a meta and I'm sure GGG has plenty of data from PoE1 how many people tend to follow the meta by looking at some build guide.
If they did this we'd all be using increased AoE, physical/elemental damage, and attack/cast speed in most if not all of our skills. Many gems would become useless and they'd have to completely rebalance everything.
Maybe if something like allotting spirit to use duplicates of a support gem was suggested there would be more consideration here.
everyones so caught up about "balancing" as if a PVE game is going to be the new competitive E-sports event. My suggestion is more about making the game more Fun, which the screen shot of the build the guy above looks fun. you're not going to league start with an afk build. the sweats are usually done within a week and most people just want to muck around and do what they feel is fun in the end game.
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Posted bybobtank#2490on Dec 17, 2024, 2:59:16 AM
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agreed the skill builds feel way too limited
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Posted bywaxapnts#0527on Dec 17, 2024, 3:09:42 AM
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Just because something is an obvious choice doesn't make it useless. Its still using one of the gem slots which are limited, removing it and giving everything a blanket 30% isnt a fix as you've just given the character a free gem slot at that point. the majority of people use the same supports because they cbf thinking for themselves and follow a build or go on poe ninja to follow the meta. which people are going to do anyway, problem is the builds on the other end of the spectrum are going to be waaay fewer and less creative because there's just way less options. imagine having 10 skills all 6 linked, you need 50 differentsupport gems... you're definately going to be forced to use a gem you dont want. if you want to only use 1 support gem in a slot you can still do that if they remove the limit so its not hurting anyone. however if i want to build around a specific mechanic, most characters have a skill for clearing and a skill for single target dps. whatever mechanic i choose i'll only be able to support one of those skills. thats what im getting at. theres no build diversity at that point because im going to be forced to use 50 other mechanics i wasn't planning on using, on a pure "attack speed" or pure "freeze" or pure "ignite" or whatever build it is. Everyones just going to be using the same attack and be grinding so they can make the number go higher like in D4, rather than doubling down on the mechanic the build was built around.
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I will quote @Cmagik#1657 who summarised it very well why the limit is good for the game.
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The logic is that they struggled to come up with different support gems because when anything can be socketed any amount of time, you end up like in PoE1 where 90% of skills use the same 10 support because that's the best thing to do. You got 100 support but only 10 are used 90% of the time, the remaining 10% are just for the little variation in skill innerworking.
For instance,
"Increased fire damage". why wouldn't you put this on all your fire spell?
If all fire skill end up with "Increased fire damage" as support, you might as well remove it and make it baseline. Repeat that for most damaging support (which were always the 3-4 first socket used in PoE1 for almost every single skill) and you end up with much less supports.
Then the same problem arises with utility support. If you don't need to invest that 3-4 socket into damaging support, then you can use utility. And again, most frost skill will use the same support, most fire too etc etc.
You end up where realistically you should include everything and only allow for 1-2 support with "weird unique effect". But that's not what they want.
So, in an interview, they explain that someone came up with this idea. "If the issue is that we socket the same things everywhere, why not add a limit of 1 support per build".
Then out of the sudden, +30% fire damage makes sens because it can only be used on a single skill. Same for some support.
Things like
+40% AoE
or
+50% AoE but induce a CD
also make sens because without the limitation, most of the time +40% AoE is better. But if there's a limitation then you can have "less good" support or more situational support.
The decision was made as to avoid PoE1 situation where your true "support choice" are 1 gem at best per 6L. You got no choice, you just pick whatever grants the most dmg.
Last edited by bobtank#2490 on Dec 17, 2024, 3:32:16 AM
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Posted bybobtank#2490on Dec 17, 2024, 3:30:48 AM
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