Poe 2 - Analysis. Result of Professional deformation and degradation of game design?

"

auspexa#1404 wrote:

PoE 1 used to be good

now it's one of the WORST arpgs on the market

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

"

auspexa#1404 wrote:

PoE 1 used to be good

now it's one of the WORST arpgs on the market

Because... Why?

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

The problem is that the development of Poe 2 was funded by Poe 1 players, and the main core of Poe 1 is a completely different gameplay.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

Any game designer knows: if your game has a roll and it is absolutely necessary, then most likely it is a bad game, or Katana Zero. Yes, this applies to action games like Hotline Miami, but it is unacceptable in an action RPG.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

The whole BASIS of an action RPG is built around the characteristics of the character. Potentially, you should be able to develop your character so much that you can kill everything without even moving. This is what people loved PoE 1 for, and this is completely impossible in PoE 2, because the gameplay basis of PoE 2 is different.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

The passive skill tree in Poe 1 is literally a work of art. The concept of nodes on them and their usefulness change depending on what Timeless Jewel you use, whether you can put Thread of Hope. And note - all this has to do exclusively with stats.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

Again, no negativity. I have always loved and will love Poe, but this is just weird. I am not a proponent of conspiracy theories and I believe in the integrity of GGG, but when such things happen... I can't help but watch who manages the shares and cashes out the money, if you understand.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

"

Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 wrote:

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

False. It's ACTION RPGs, and a spectrum from Mass Effect through Souls to PoE.

Combining depth and involvment of action with proper heavy rpg is a holy grail of arpgs, very hard to do and what are they seem to be trying to acomplish, and you try to ruin. Not the bordering on spectrum 654 plus 32 per 15 multiplier x6 looks good in the out of the game app and in 48 levels starts working, in the meantime click click click.

If you want to argue that way, I could nitpick the names. Obviously I was talking about Diabloids because the Action RPG genre itself doesn't mean anything, it's been devalued for a long time, and there's a good article about it on the internet from a famous game designer. According to the Action RPG genre, Diablo, Skyrim and Dark Souls are all representatives of the same genre. But they are completely different games with completely different emphases. Tell me how many people actually paid attention to the atmosphere and plot in POE 1, then your argument will make sense.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

I understand that this is Early Access, but that argument doesn't work - the problems I'm talking about here are systemic. They are, as Perturbator would say, Corrupted By Design. And theoretically, if you listen to people's criticism, you can fix all of this. It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

"

NicknamesOfGod#1810 wrote:

Mark Roberts said a while ago that he doesn't read long forum posts. As a writer of long forum posts, I took that personally at the time. I don't anymore. I get it now.

OP, please condense your feedback into a 5x5 bingo card.

Am I right in understanding that you want a three-line summary of a book on game design? Complex problems require complex criticism, and I took this seriously. I'm always amazed that people look for simple answers to complex questions. I'm afraid that the problems of this game are quite complex and they lie deep

"

SilverWF#6383 wrote:

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

"

SilverWF#6383 wrote:

- Why do you been thinking this should be 'poe1' 2.0 ?

Because I've been paying money for this for years, and because the game is called Path of Exile 2, not Path of Dark Souls 2

But devs are clearly said: this WONT be POE1 !

You completely ignored their words and now it's someone's fault, not yours?

"

PatrickFf#1965 wrote:

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

"

NicknamesOfGod#1810 wrote:

Mark Roberts said a while ago that he doesn't read long forum posts. As a writer of long forum posts, I took that personally at the time. I don't anymore. I get it now.

OP, please condense your feedback into a 5x5 bingo card.

Am I right in understanding that you want a three-line summary of a book on game design? Complex problems require complex criticism, and I took this seriously. I'm always amazed that people look for simple answers to complex questions. I'm afraid that the problems of this game are quite complex and they lie deep

The problem isn't complex, GGG want to make a game they like, but the vast majority of gamers won't. Its the reason why games companies have lost over a billion on bad game choices in the last year.

They are making a game for them and not the customer.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

"

theslavagame#6814 wrote:

I understand that this is Early Access, but that argument doesn't work - the problems I'm talking about here are systemic. They are, as Perturbator would say, Corrupted By Design. And theoretically, if you listen to people's criticism, you can fix all of this. It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

Incorrect.

Numbers in old ARPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

This genre is still largely defined by a single game that came out twenty-four years ago - Diablo II. D2 was lightning in a bottle, and its impact on gaming as an aggregate whole is difficult to overstate. D2 is a classic masterpiece, for sure.

It's also twenty-four years old.

Gamers have changed since the days of D2. The standards of gaming have changed since the days of D2. The tools of gaming have changed since the days of D2. Everything has changed since the days of D2. The genre must change with it. If D2-esque ARPGs are going to be a 'genre' the way Soulsborne is, it needs to widen and diversify. Developers have to ask what the heart of the game is, and then try and find new ways to deliver an engaging, exciting experience.

For some players, the heart of the ARPG is, as you've said, numbers. Growing so powerful you don't need to play the game to win. You yourself put it thusly - "the character doesn't even need to move", "you don't need hands to play, just your brain", and many other little aphorisms here and there.

For other players, the heart of the genre is customization and buildcraft. Coming up with cool ideas and pushing them as far as they can go against an unforgiving game. The two ideas are related, but they are not the same.

Path of Exile 2 is a game of customization and buildcraft mated to a vastly stronger combat engine than any other ARPG on the market. It is a new experience, a calculated experiment in seeing whether the ARPG as a genre can be made stronger by incorporating the myriad lessons learned from other action games.

If you'd like a game where numbers are all that matters and actual gameplay is a waste of time? path 1 is right over there, next door. You yourself said that PoE1 is the ultimate, unbeatable expression of this ideal. Why make a second game that will fundamentally fail to capture a market POE1 already has on lockdown?

Let's see where this experiment goes for more than a week, shall we? Because frankly, I'm thoroughly enjoying mechanics pushing back against the "absolute dominance" of numbers, and I am far from the only one.