Poe 2 - Analysis. Result of Professional deformation and degradation of game design?

this sounds less like dev feedback and more like personal biases

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SilverWF#6383 wrote:

- Why do you been thinking this should be 'poe1' 2.0 ?

I don't but it shouldn't be PoE 1 0.1, which is that state it's in. It's got all the same mistakes, and more, like they learned nothing at all from 10 years on their first game.

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j33bus#3399 wrote:

I don't but it shouldn't be PoE 1 0.1, which is that state it's in. It's got all the same mistakes, and more, like they learned nothing at all from 10 years on their first game.

Even PoE1 0.1 is better than PoE1 right now.

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theslavagame#6814 wrote:

I understand that this is Early Access, but that argument doesn't work - the problems I'm talking about here are systemic. They are, as Perturbator would say, Corrupted By Design. And theoretically, if you listen to people's criticism, you can fix all of this. It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

100%. This is why I'm very concerned about the future of the game. Solving this issue (I agree it's an issue, not everyone does) require some deep structural changes to the entire game design.

If it's not solved, I'm afraid the game will die. I don't think people praising it right now (nothing wrong with that) will actually be profitable enough to sustain the game (I don't think ANYONE, whether they like the direction of the game or not, will be as dedicated to return every league and play multiple builds a league). But at this point it's just a conjecture.

So as you say. Time will tell.

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just_dont#6539 wrote:

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Statement 1 - Mechanics vs. Stats

Any ARPG game (this one included) is mostly stats.
The only difference here is that PoE1 is 99% stats and PoE2 is 90% stats.

All the other comparisons you're making in this paragraph are nonsensical. Games of other genres have fundamentally different possible spreads of mechanics vs stats.

You're trying to push an argument that PoE2 went towards "mechanics" games a lot, while in reality it barely moved; and that's very obvious - an ARPG game simply cannot move too much towards "mechanics" while still remaining ARPG.

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Statement 2 - Depth of building, encouragement of creativity

You have written a whole paragraph talking about literally half-finished game. Let me just disregard it whatsoever.

Talking about builds right now is simply premature and pointless. We can return to this topic when the game gets at least about 90% of its content and not just 50% like right now.

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Statement 3 - Roll in Action Rpg

Here you're simply reiterating that a slight shift towards "mechanics" is bad.
Whereas it's a welcome extension that allows keeping the difficulty level high enough (it provides a "mechanics" failsafe that's always available independently of your build).

See, you have written quite a lot of words, but (not surprising, really) didn't made much good arguments.

If for you the inability to survive a blow from 14k ES in party, because it is clearly designed to dodge, is a small shift towards mechanics compared to the first part, then I have nothing to talk about with you. I've already seen you on the forum, and it looks like you're against criticism at all costs

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theslavagame#6814 wrote:

It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

False. It's ACTION RPGs, and a spectrum from Mass Effect through Souls to PoE.

Combining depth and involvment of action with proper heavy rpg is a holy grail of arpgs, very hard to do and what are they seem to be trying to acomplish, and you try to ruin. Not the bordering on spectrum 654 plus 32 per 15 multiplier x6 looks good in the out of the game app and in 48 levels starts working, in the meantime click click click.

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Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 wrote:

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theslavagame#6814 wrote:

It's still mostly a numbers question, because like it or not, numbers in action RPGs have absolute dominance over mechanical skill.

False. It's ACTION RPGs, and a spectrum from Mass Effect through Souls to PoE.

Combining depth and involvment of action with proper heavy rpg is a holy grail of arpgs, very hard to do and what are they seem to be trying to acomplish, and you try to ruin. Not the bordering on spectrum 654 plus 32 per 15 multiplier x6 looks good in the out of the game app and in 48 levels starts working, in the meantime click click click.

If you want to argue that way, I could nitpick the names. Obviously I was talking about Diabloids because the Action RPG genre itself doesn't mean anything, it's been devalued for a long time, and there's a good article about it on the internet from a famous game designer. According to the Action RPG genre, Diablo, Skyrim and Dark Souls are all representatives of the same genre. But they are completely different games with completely different emphases. Tell me how many people actually paid attention to the atmosphere and plot in POE 1, then your argument will make sense.

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theslavagame#6814 wrote:

/snip

I completely agree with your analysis. PoE 2’s shift away from build-planning and stat-focused gameplay towards mechanically driven, action-oriented design is a departure from what made the original great. The joy of crafting intricate builds and optimizing numbers has been sidelined for mechanics like dodging and rolling, which don’t align with the genre’s strengths or PoE’s established identity.

The passive tree and unique items have lost depth, stifling creativity. The tree in PoE 1 was a playground for build experimentation, while PoE 2’s version feels restrictive. Unique items and support gems once allowed incredible flexibility, but now they seem designed to limit rather than empower players.

The dodge-roll "mechanic" is especially problematic. It works well in games with small, deliberate enemy encounters but feels totally out of place in PoE’s large-scale battles. Sanctum, the most controversial and probably also hated mechanic in the game, was likely ONLY added by GGG into PoE 2 just to make the dodge-roll system feel somewhat justified. Without it, the mechanic would feel even more out of touch with PoE’s traditional design philosophy.

Your points highlight systemic issues that need addressing. GGG still has time to course-correct, and hopefully, they’ll take this feedback to heart to preserve the essence of what made PoE so beloved.

You have vocalized everything I've been feeling, but unable to fully articulate, Thank you.

I, like many, have been playing since release. Took time off, but each day I log in feels more like wasted time. I put other games on hold to give the game I love my undivided attention. In return I've gotten into what feels like a toxic relationship. I want to love this game, I want to keep playing and for a time, I will. My hope is dwindling though for all of the reasons you've stated.

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Rashaken#7584 wrote:

You have vocalized everything I've been feeling, but unable to fully articulate, Thank you.

I, like many, have been playing since release. Took time off, but each day I log in feels more like wasted time. I put other games on hold to give the game I love my undivided attention. In return I've gotten into what feels like a toxic relationship. I want to love this game, I want to keep playing and for a time, I will. My hope is dwindling though for all of the reasons you've stated.

I think the game has every chance of becoming normal, so don't worry